Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 10:10:56 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 24, 2019 10:10:56 GMT -8
One of the things about writing is that is is like sculpting a block of marble. You can imagine (easily) the perfect figure trapped inside the marble beforehand. But realizing it and releasing it is another thing entirely.
The online world has greatly facilitated the imagining of perfect marble rather than the skillful carving of it. Why? Well, almost certainly because to state something — to have an opinion — is to chip off some of the flecks. Perfection is then no longer possible. Now you’re committed to a real thing. And it can be criticized. And rarely will it be perfect.
One reason that most people online or on radio programs lurk is because it’s a heck of a lot easier than stating an opinion, of carving your thoughts into something tangible that can then be viewed at many angles.
Is it any wonder why then that people hold to groupthink, inside of which it is safe to think because there will always be reflexive back-slappers?
There’s that old saying, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.” But that is the refuse of cowards even if there is more than a little truth in it. What say you?
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Post by artraveler on Jul 24, 2019 13:22:42 GMT -8
I started writing in high school and it was not very good. Fortunately, I had one teacher who encouraged my reading, writing and demanded book reports. There were many times I cursed her, but over the years the wisdom of what she was trying to make me do finely got through this old marine's head. It is still not perfect, but it has gotten better. In part with Stubborn Things exposure.
There are two styles of writing. The non-academic story, fiction or non-fiction, and academic that is supported with references, footnotes and end notes. The former is actually more difficult than the latter, although a casual observer might think the opposite.
A good story must hold together even if it is devoid of true facts. Ask any writer of speculative fiction like Tolkien, Heinline, Bradbury or King how difficult it is to keep the logic balls in the air. Academic writing, on the other hand, should be mostly empirical, conclusions are easily discernible and often labeled as conclusions.
Several years ago, at the prodding of a close friend, I started what I thought would be a brief biography. It has since grown to over 14,000 words and could reach 20,000 in the next few years. I would like to encourage everyone on these pages to do likewise. Not so much to improve your writing, it will, but as a heritage for your children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. My parents, and grandparents left little of their stories behind and over the last 40+ years since they died I have forgotten many of their stories. What little I remember, however, is written down for posterity. If you doubt the importance of a journal, or bio consider Mary Chesnut's Civil War as example of how influential a simple work by an untrained author can be for generations.
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 14:26:16 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 24, 2019 14:26:16 GMT -8
There were a lot of diary-based books in the War of the Rebellion that are important sources, especially on the Confederate side. I had several in my collection, as well as plenty of memoirs. I had enough first-hand sources to fill a bookcase, and that doesn't even include Battles and Leaders of the Civil War, several volumes of the Confederate Military History, and the complete Official Records. I had a lot of such accounts for other wars as well, including many (mostly American and German, but a few British as well) from World War II, a few Napoleonic accounts (mainly the Russian campaign books by Armand de Caulaincourt and Philippe de Segur), and von Moltke's account of the Franco-Prussian War.
I had to do a fair amount of writing in high school and college, but of course this was mostly reports. One of my English teachers noted that I had a journalistic style, and I don't suppose that's ever really changed. This hasn't worked too well in doing business letters, which hurt me on my 10th grade English final. But I remember a story I did for 11th grade, inspired by a letter I read in Time, in which a Democrat ticket of Bobby Kennedy and Gene McCarthy won the 1968 election, and the (negative) consequences. One feature was a law banning the US from going to war with anybody for any reason (naturally, they didn't bother with a Secretary of Defense, a touch the teacher appreciated). The final result was the US being conquered by North Vietnam.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 15:23:21 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 24, 2019 15:23:21 GMT -8
You’re probably right, Artler, although in school I tended to have a lack of patience for the details. I just liked writing my opinion and syntheses, full speed ahead, damn the references. More than once I was told, “Very good. But I have to mark you down a grade for a lack of references.”
My background in amateur writing (it was technically professional, but I know the quality was amateur) was writing ad copy for an advertising agency. You’ll really understand the humor of it (I didn’t at the time) when you can imagine me trying to connect with Mr. or Mrs. Consumer. I just wasn’t on the same wavelength but clevered my way through it once in a while.
This was when I had a revelation regarding writing. I found myself often going over a paragraph again and again, trying to construct it so it sounded smart, clever, and influential. Over and over. And you can guess that the end result may have been very clever but quite dull and uninfluential.
It took a while (and it’s still taking a while) to understand that good writing is not the same as training a parrot to talk. And all I was doing was parroting. By all means, read good books. And it’s okay to copy style here and there. But don’t parrot. Refine what you have, but don’t change the essence.
And when writing, one is pretty bare naked if one is doing it correctly. That’s at least my point of view now. The world is full of intellectuals and pompous asses, as well as just the deceitful and manipulative. Life is too short for that. We may be plain and simple people but let our thoughts be honest. If they bore someone else, we might wish to consider deepening our thoughts. But not constructing them.
I think your idea of a biography is a good one. I loved reading JB’s heartfelt thoughts on his battered little parish. That doesn’t suit me so much because, frankly, I’m not all that much interested in family stories. My creative instincts (for better or for worse) are to get away from the kludge of family. If you have lots of great memories and experiences, God bless you. Write them down. But I’d rather read Moby Dick.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 15:32:15 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 24, 2019 15:32:15 GMT -8
Oh my goodness. Did you kick her? What an insult.
I tried writing some short stories once. I should probably do so again. And yet there are different categories of writing, as Artler mentioned. I’ve never been a good storyteller. The problem is (and this is not a brag, just a fact), I don’t tend to think or see things like other people. So there’s an built-in communication problem there.
I’ll laugh at things on TV, for example, that I know were meant to be straight. The culture itself right now (especially the entertainment culture) is so bizarre, I can’t see it as normal. But most do.
One thing I (and many of you) have in common with a true literary artist is that they see the world through perceptive eyes. They see what others do not see. And when they write what is technically very commonplace descriptions, they are amazing because they are noticing what we all take for granted. They allow us to cherish the things we otherwise trample underfoot in our world of forgetfulness.
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 16:43:53 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 24, 2019 16:43:53 GMT -8
In the late 1960s, a journalistic style wasn't an insult. Besides, I think the teacher who told me that (all of them men at that high school, which was then a private school for males only, though they had a woman teaching typing and notehand) was the head of the English department, and also coach of the debate team (which I captained in my final year). I had enough behavior problems as it was. At least they never spanked me, unlike the principal at Fort Campbell High School. (That wasn't why he was one of 3 people in my personal demonology.)
I've had a handful of short story ideas over the years, an even smaller handful of which I actually wrote. (I even sent one for possible publication. It was rejected without any comments on it, probably by the slushpile reader.) But a successful writer has lots and lots of ideas. Alas, creativity is not my strong suit, aside from a modest bent for satire. Mercedes Lackey, in one of her Diana Tregarde books, had her discussing how she came up with ideas: She would see someone and imagine what her story (Tregarde wrote romances, as I recall) might be. I presume Lackey herself did something similar, at least in her contemporary fantasies (such as the Tregarde books).
This would be much more difficult in her straight fantasies, though they still involved people put into fantastic situations. (A lot of them were kids facing emotional abuse. Reading one took me about twice as long as usual because of old memories that kept flooding into me. It was a couple of months before I got over it, which led to my not visiting my mother when she visited her mother about 30 years ago, her last visit to this area. Ironically, the bad memories didn't involve her, but she still brought them back.)
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 17:28:23 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jul 24, 2019 17:28:23 GMT -8
A journalistic style worked out ok for Dos Pasos
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 17:32:31 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jul 24, 2019 17:32:31 GMT -8
Write the biography for your family, for the time you won't be around to answer questions, and more importantly to provide an answer to the question to be asked by your g g g grandchildren; "was he a horse thief or horses ass?"
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 18:25:00 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jul 24, 2019 18:25:00 GMT -8
That is probably the main impetus for my writing the many personal stories which were published on ST. I wish I had started earlier as my father had told me I should write about my experiences. I am sure he would have been keen to read them. Alas, we cannot retrieve the past and correct our mistakes.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 20:37:51 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 24, 2019 20:37:51 GMT -8
I'm not one to talk, but it would be easy enough to gather your stories together into en ebook and put it on Amazon. You'd need a rough theme to tie it all together. I would also suggest putting in as many funny, bizarre, and embarrassing moments as you could. That's the spice of these kinds of projects.
Suggested titles/themes:
+ A white man learns the Asian Way
+ The worst of Asia is better than the best of California.
+ You Haven't Multi-cultured until You've Traveled in My Shoes in Asia
Insert some photos. Easy peasy.
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 21:04:34 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jul 24, 2019 21:04:34 GMT -8
Should it come to that, I just may ask to draw on your experience and help.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 21:16:49 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 24, 2019 21:16:49 GMT -8
I bookmarked a guid for how to make an ebook. I'm sure I still have that. And I'm very sure Amazon has instructions for that. It might be fun to do. You just gotta get all blather-mouthed and start writing a whole lot of paragraphs.
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 21:22:09 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 24, 2019 21:22:09 GMT -8
I like Brad's suggested titles for KFZ's hypothetical e-book. He'd probably need more material, and he'd have to adjust for the fact that a lot of his anecdotes are in Europe rather than Asia (details, details), but you never know, it might work.
As for me, my articles for Salem Press (where that journalistic style no doubt helped) at least gave me a modest writing career. I wish I still had my copies of them.
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Writing
Jul 24, 2019 21:28:18 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jul 24, 2019 21:28:18 GMT -8
It may sound trite, but perhaps "A Traveler's Tales." No doubt, it has been used many times before.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 25, 2019 7:58:14 GMT -8
Mr. Kung, as your self-appointed literary agent it is my job to get you to at least to #10,000 (which would be quite good) on the Amazon list. You've got to get with the spirit of the thing. That title might sell one book to your wife and that's about it. We need some spirited marketing pizazz. I've enclosed a sample cover for your review:
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Post by timothylane on Jul 25, 2019 8:29:17 GMT -8
That ought to sell well. #10,000 heck -- you're aiming much higher. But that Churchill contribution will be especially interesting to see.
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Writing
Jul 25, 2019 8:33:48 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jul 25, 2019 8:33:48 GMT -8
Back in 78 I spent a week in Hawaii with my girlfriend at government expense following a Soviet spook. He got on a plane and went home. We spent quality time on a mostly deserted beach on the big island. Short story for my children, sex and serf. I hope they are enlightened.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 11,009
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 25, 2019 8:36:50 GMT -8
"Sex, Spies, and Pineapple: Traveling for Fun and Country" by Professor Artler.
I suggest some big-breasted babe front and center on the front cover under a palm tree looking through binoculars out at something in the beyond.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 25, 2019 10:49:32 GMT -8
That photo is hilarious! Could this be called "The China Syndrome?" Or how about, "A Chinese Fire Drill?"
It brings to mind the old saying, "Don't eat yellow snow." Now one can add to that, "Don't touch the elevator buttons." I would advise, "Take the Stairs", but I have been in those stairwells and they are even worse.
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Writing
Jul 25, 2019 11:00:26 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 25, 2019 11:00:26 GMT -8
I'm reminded of the stairway in Soylent Green leading from the cop's apartment to the street, with all the homeless people sleeping on it. I hope it wasn't as bad in Hong Kong or Singapore or Tokyo or wherever.
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