kungfuzu
Member
Posts: 10,470
Member is Online
|
Post by kungfuzu on Feb 7, 2020 14:13:23 GMT -8
There is a slight amount of tongue-in-cheek in my analysis.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 7, 2020 14:36:25 GMT -8
That’s probably the truth. The delicate sensibilities of today allow you could kill a baby — even out of the womb — but god forbid someone 200 years ago say something that sounded racist. I was listening to a little of Michael Medved’s show today. Some guy was on there (I don’t know who) who was going on about the harm of political rancor. We must tone it down. Etc. Medved got around near the end to asking if he could vote for Trump. Well, this guy could not get over his own hysteria about Trump being a dire threat to the Constitution.
How anyone could say this after or during an attempted political coup is beyond me. But these are the kind of fastidious fools who are often given the name “moderate.” They are anything but. They are liberals who imagine that they, beyond all others, have a broad and non-partisan vision. "Can't we all get along?" Oh...but not where a Republican is concerned.
When it came to the subject of Trump, this guy was full of the same old hysterical “the sky is falling.” Look, dick-wad. If you’re worried about an oppressive government, just trying building anything in most places. There will be regulations and restrictions up the ying-yang. Word police are everywhere and you can be fired for a slip of the tongue. These are all Leftist ventures. But God forbid Trump enforce immigration laws or things such as that. Then it's "the Constitution is under dire threat." And this is what I call the Weenie Partisans. They find themselves so fastidious about the supposed wrongs of others but — to get back to that bible quote — strain the water so they won’t swallow a gnat but instead easily swallow down a whole camel of nonsense.
|
|
kungfuzu
Member
Posts: 10,470
Member is Online
|
Post by kungfuzu on Feb 7, 2020 14:52:33 GMT -8
I have to admit that, since my twenties, I have been a big proponent of our Congressmen and Senators not getting along with the president and each other. Let them stay busy going after each other rather than working and scheming together to go after the rest of us.
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Feb 7, 2020 15:21:47 GMT -8
My view generally is that if the GOP is the Stupid Party and the Demagogues are the Evil Party, then what do you call a bipartisan bill (aside from trivialities such as naming post offices)? A stupid, evil bill. Most of the time they will be.
Artraveler's analysis of eccentrics is interesting. In Christopher Anvil's Pandora's Planet, an alien from a race that has (more or less) conquered Earth only to discover that occupation is another matter compares his people (the leonine Centrans) to Terrans in terms of nuclear power. The humans are like the radioative material, and the Centrans are like the moderator. He thus thinks letting the humans spread would be very useful in terms of avoiding the cultural equivalent of a nuclear explosion.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 7, 2020 15:59:20 GMT -8
Egalitarian, schmegalitarian. Laws ought be applied equally to all. But the idea that America, or any other country, could get by with just the mediocrity of the masses is not just a pipe dream but a destructive and Communist one.
So no wonder (note to self: remember Prager’s public/private admonition) these scruffy nerf herders so love to bash anyone of outstanding accomplishment. But America isn’t America without Henry Ford, the Rockefellers, the Vanderbilts, the Rothschilds, the Morgans, Edison, Carnegie, Hughes, Jobs, Gates, and even the nutty-looking Bezos.
The “little people,” much like the single mother, can be glorified up the ying yang. But freedom is worth little without the ability for big business to reform and transform society without too much unreasonable hindrance. And, of course, for the Steve Jobses of the world to be able to start small and get big. Freedom doesn’t mean stuffing the middle-class or lower classes with entitlements.
We obviously need some checks on big business. But the asshole, Steve Jobs, (okay…I forgot the admonition) did more to change the world for the better than a hundred left wing Sunday school teachers — or ten thousand politicians, for that matter.
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Feb 7, 2020 17:01:44 GMT -8
We obviously need some checks on big business. But the asshole, Steve Jobs, (okay…I forgot the admonition) did more to change the world for the better than a hundred left wing Sunday school teachers — or ten thousand politicians, for that matter. Brad, There are very few Libertarians who would disagree, at least not here in Galt's Gulch Arkansas, hidden in a secret bunker waiting for the end life, the universe and everything. Could it be that scratch a real conservative and there is a secret libertarian seeking to get out? The only thing I would add is checks on government must exceed in quality the checks on business. The market provides checks on business but nothing checks government except law and sunlight. The last three decades should provide sufficient example that more sunlight is needed and send the criminals to jail. I long for the time when election to office is viewed with the same aversion as a jail term.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 7, 2020 17:14:58 GMT -8
I think if a conservative took a couple tokes of this powerful weed they sell legally these days, there might emerge a libertarian.
Yes, especially checks on government. That goes hand-in-hand with checks on the demos as well. Three wolves voting to eat the two sheep, etc., etc.
You’ve got the Jew/CIA/Marine side of things covered. I’ve got the political side. I’ve never run for office but spent quite a lot of my yute immersed in the process in one way or another.
Think back to school and the type of people who were class presidents. These were almost always the type of people who needed a good ass-kicking. They tended to be arrogant and just sort of annoyingly dweebish. Butt-gig is the archetype.
So, yeah. I have no problem saying “If you long for political office there is something wrong with you.” That’s not a quip or throw-away line. I really believe that. But short of a country being run by kings or chieftains, we have to self-govern. And that means suffering an awful lot of Alfred E. Neumans.
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Feb 7, 2020 17:45:44 GMT -8
Issue by issue, I may well agree with libertarians as often as any other group. But libertarianism operates on the basis that the solution to problems never involves the Behemoth, which is the opposite of the leftist belief that solutions to problems always involves maximizing the power of the Behemoth. I can't agree with either.
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Feb 7, 2020 20:43:09 GMT -8
I would be satisfied if government could operate with half the efficiency of Amazon. Jeff Boozo may be an ass but Amazon operates the most massive delivery service in the world, everything from soup to nuts and in two days or less. There is no government on the planet that can show that kind of efficiency. to lesser extent so does Walmart, although the brick and mortar tends to make them less efficient.
In the 80s I played nursemaid for a bunch of Soviets who were in country to oversee the START treaty and I gave them a tour of the Roseville CA train yards. It was and still is one of the most efficient yards in the nation. If I were giving that tour today I would take them to an Amazon wear house to demonstrate the efficiency of capitalism.
One of those Soviet officers, a friend(ly) from Nam, came to the US after the fall. The last I heard he was managing a Walmart in North Dakota.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 7, 2020 20:50:03 GMT -8
I think these labels now say more about an ambition for identity rather than a coherent framework for policy — in practice. How can one be conservative when the government’s reach is so far? You’d have to move to a ranch in Idaho to live the conservative life. What we call “conservative” is only conservative because it’s not quite as liberal as the Left. And the other main practical difference is that conservatives love America instead of hate it. But when speaking plain dollars-and-sense, the elephant is every bit as massive as the donkey Libertarianism I think is more of a conceit than a coherent framework for policy. It’s so fungible, it’s almost impossible to nail down the system other than on a few commonly-held elements. And when you look at these common elements, it’s every bit as corrosive to the integrity of America as liberalism. They are basically cousins. Here’s a good critique which is based on accepting Libertarianism as a coherent set of principles — an idea I reject: And, really, if your average Libertarian believed in The United State of Markets, and that was his only excess, I wouldn’t bat an eyelash at Libertarianism. Even in this excess it would not be harmful given how un-market-oriented so much of our economy is. But the Libertarianism I’ve gotten to know is nothing like that. It’s libertinism, at best, with generous spoonfuls of outright Leftism as with their stance on open borders. No real conservative objects to a pure (as possibly) market economy with sensible checks and balances. He just doesn’t believe that is all that is needed. And that’s presupposes that free markets are at the top of the Libertarian list. I don’t believe that for a moment. But speaking of markets and choice, I think perhaps that’s why it is so hard to pin down a Libertarian philosophy because it acts, in principle, as a self-selected set of beliefs from a whole smorgasbord of quasi-liberal ideas whose purpose is to anoint whatever behavior the yute is engaging in at the moment.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 7, 2020 21:05:25 GMT -8
From what I’ve read here and there recently about Norway, for example, it would seem that there is a different political situation there. Calmer. More sane. I’m not saying they make socialism work. Some argue their system is much less socialist than commonly believed. That may be so.
But my point is that America is a polarized mess. We are in the same state as we were in prior to the Civil War. We are becoming a dysfunctional country. We can’t make things works well. On the other hand, although I’ve also been told so much doesn’t work well in Europe, I think there are places, such as the relatively homogenous Norway, where they have a little better result in making the trains run on time.
There is nothing our government does well but the military. Maybe the post office. Maybe the FBI. But not much else. To think that Nancy Pelosi and the poisonous Democrat Party have such power shows you how awful things are and how corrupt the people are. And that’s what Brexit was about. The EU had become as poisonous as the Democrat Party.
We can’t Brexit. But we can try to vote them out of office. But the rot has spread deep. There are so many people sucking at the teat of government. So many victims. And, frankly, so many racists who are not called racists because they are deemed victims.
We are in a situation that cannot endure. We will either break the shackles of Washington DC and the Left or we will be crushed by them. It’s the same situation Lincoln noted when he said:
The Left must be defeated. And it may well eventually require something more potent than just politics.
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Feb 7, 2020 21:51:28 GMT -8
My understanding about Norway and the rest of the Nordic countries is not that they are socialist, they still operate free markets and the government does not own factories. But, the tax rates for the services delivered are horrendous 80-90%. So you can stillown a business but almost all your profit goes to feed the social net. How do you become a millionaire in Noeway--start with a billion dollars.
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Feb 7, 2020 22:02:44 GMT -8
Actually, the Scandinavian countries don't have high corporate taxes. Their personal taxes (income tax and VAT) are high, but not business taxes. Economically, (relatively) low business taxes and regulation are very good for the economy -- and not at all socialist. Whether Bolshie Bernie Scamders and other "democratic" socialists are ignorant of this fact (where would they learn it?) or just lying, I have no idea.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,239
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 8, 2020 9:15:37 GMT -8
To quote Mr. Kung:
|
|