Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Nov 4, 2019 9:14:44 GMT -8
Holy smokes, that aspect does come through in “The Smoke at Dawn.” One wonders if the author is over-doing his portrayal of Bragg. He’s beginning to make Captain Queeg look like a reasonable man.
There’s one section where Bragg is reviewing some troops at random. He notices a soldier eating a goose (I think). Goose is definitely not on the menu so Bragg assume he has illegally procured this from some civilian households (a big no-no). But the soldier said that he got if from “Captain Bird.” And then the scene turns into a Marx Brothers movie as Bragg insists on talking to this Captain Bird while everyone around him snickers, knowing there is no such person.
Finally Bragg realizes he is being made the butt of a joke which just causes his surliness to ratchet up a level.
Bragg frequently rants in a fashion reminiscent of Hitler in his bunker, making all kinds of pie-in-the-sky declarations about how he’ll win out just-because. He doesn’t need Longstreet (who has a significant number of their good forces) and wants to get rid of him and thinks he'll be stronger because of it. Indeed, he seems to hold his fellow generals in more contempt than he does the Yankees.
If what the author is characterizing about Bragg, this general really was something else.
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Post by timothylane on Nov 4, 2019 10:04:54 GMT -8
The Captain Bird incident is new to me, though there are others fairly similar. Apparently one officer had a great talent for mimicry, and was aping Bragg before his fellow officers -- when Bragg showed up, and told him to continue. He was certainly an eccentric sort, partly from ill health. Incidentally, Sherman met him after Louisiana seceded, when Sherman's position at LSU made him in effect adjutant to the governor (he summed up the spoils of the state's seizure of the Baton Rouge arsenal). Bragg didn't expect anything from Davis, who was no friend even though Bragg's battery supported Davis's regiment at Buena Vista.
Grant's model was Zachary Taylor -- not necessarily brilliant, but capable and not pompous. Sort of the anti-Scott (though politically both were Whigs, and presidential candidates in successive elections).
Smith's plan was the one Rosecrans discussed with Grant. The latter was very impressed, and thought Smith was one of the best Union officers, giving him a corps command in the Army of the James. After a few months, he thought Smith was one of the worst Union officers.
Was that map from the West Point Atlas? I had a copy, and it looks like it. Incidentally, Elizabeth has relatives who live on Signal Mountain, and we stopped off with them for a night when we visited Chattanooga on one of our trips (coming back from San Antonio). Going up the W Road really activated by moderate acrophobia.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Nov 4, 2019 11:18:51 GMT -8
I don’t know if the Bird incident is literal or just meant to be analogous of the kinds of things that popped up under Bragg’s command. But there would appear to be more than a little Animal House humor attached to that command. I’m sure more than a few companies found themselves on double secret probation. Grant is an interesting case. Not having read a biography (or autobiography of him), I have to admit I don’t set well with those who say he was a failure. I mean, compared to eventually being the president of the United States, sure. Who isn’t? But he went through a lot of jobs, not all of which panned out. That’s very normal However, had there not been a Civil War, we almost certainly would have never heard the name. And that brings a great metaphysical thought to it: Is it true of many that we are just piles of mediocrity but for the right circumstances? I don’t know where that map came from. It just came up on an images search at Duck Duck Go. And I assume the following is the view from, not too, Signal Mountain. But I’m not sure. But what a picturesque place is Tennessee. Here’s a photo I found at random titled “Little Bend Rd, Signal Mountain, TN.” [ Larger Version]
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Post by timothylane on Nov 4, 2019 12:01:51 GMT -8
I was referring to the first map, the battle map included in your posting, as opposed to the linked map.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Nov 4, 2019 15:05:49 GMT -8
From the url of the battle map, it looks like it's from a Wiki article. But the individual graphics will still show up if you just do an image search using a generic search engine. It's a very good battle map considering what is typical.
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Post by timothylane on Nov 4, 2019 16:32:47 GMT -8
I checked, and the map is indeed from the wikipedia article on the Chattanooga campaign. They didn't say their source, so they may have used the West Point Atlas. One of the other maps looked like this and also reminded me of a WPA map. Note that Bragg sent Buckner's division to Longstreet on November 22, just a few days before the battle began. He was sending Cleburne to join them when Hooker attacked and he recalled everyone within a day's march of his lines. Cleburne was sent to Tunnel Hill at the northern end of the Confederate line, which he held against Sherman until the rout on Missionary Ridge forced him to join the withdrawal. He commanded the rearguard at Ringgold Gap, which held off Hooker's greatly superior pursuers.
Lincoln was very concerned about Burnside's force in Knoxville, which had repulsed Longstreet's assault on Fort Sanders (as I recall, Longstreet lost around 700 men and inflicted 10 or 2o) but was still besieged. So Grant sent a large force under Sherman to relieve him. Longstreet withdrew to the northeast, eventually rejoining Lee in Virginia. Meanwhile, the Union was able to seize the main Confederate copper mines at Duckport, Tennessee. (Most field artillery pieces were constructed from bronze or brass, so this was a major loss.)
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 4, 2019 21:20:47 GMT -8
I just want to point out that driving into Chattanooga from Georgia is an impressive thing. On the West is Lookout Mountain which towers above the valley. It seems to me that anyone coming within range of the cannon placed on top would be in serious trouble.
Chattanooga is worth a visit. The old train station has been converted into a hotel, and one can book an old railway car for one's room.
The State of Tennessee is very beautiful. From Gatlinburg just outside the Great Smokey Mountain National Park through the Cumberland Gap all the way to Memphis is a worthwhile drive. One just feels the history.
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Post by artraveler on Nov 4, 2019 21:54:37 GMT -8
The State of Tennessee is very beautiful. From Gatlinburg just outside the Great Smokey Mountain National Park through the Cumberland Gap all the way to Memphis is a worthwhile drive. One just feels the history. The drive down the Trace to Vicksburg is very much worth the trip. It is a closed access highway and the speed limit is 55. There is everything to see along the way, battlefields, cemeteries dating to the 1700s, Indian mounds, tobacco farms, cotton farms and some wonderful roadside restaurants. When we drove it about 5 years ago there were some movie folks filming some mini-series. Then there is a side trip to Tupelo for Elvis birthplace. Vicksburg is commercial now, but the battlefield is worth a few hours to tour. An ironclad, the Cairo was raised from the Yazoo River and has been restored also. Downtown Vicksburg has some wonderful restaurants and an active night life. You can cross the river into LA and Monroe is just an hour away, you might see the Duck Dynasty Robinsons along the way. If you turn North into Arkansas you can visit the Lakeport Plantation one of the few in the South that wasn't completely destroyed in the war.Then it's miles of cotton fields until you reach Little Rock.
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Post by timothylane on Nov 4, 2019 21:56:17 GMT -8
Getting artillery up Lookout Mountain could be a strain. In fact, the Confederate defense was on some sort of shelf well below the crest. There is a difference between the actual crest and what is known as the military crest. The latter is generally just below the actual crest and provides the best view of the slope -- and of enemy troops ascending it. On Missionary Ridge they held the actual crest, which helped the Army of the Cumberland forces when the charged up it.
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 4, 2019 22:01:14 GMT -8
It is my opinion that most real warriors are too often pretty useless in times of peace. This is particularly the case in modern times, when societies have built up a substantial system of laws around which order is based.
Their virtues are those which shine in times of violence.
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 4, 2019 22:07:20 GMT -8
I have visited the Vicksburg battlefield two or three times. The first was back in the early 1960s and the last was about 15 years ago. The Cairo had not been raised from the Yazoo in the '60s, but we did see it on the last visit.
I recall there was a very good fried catfish restaurant in Vicksburg, but do not recall its name.
I hope to drive the Trace once before I die.
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Post by timothylane on Nov 4, 2019 22:10:19 GMT -8
Elizabeth and I toured Vicksburg battlefield a couple of decades ago, including the still incomplete Cairo reconstruction. There was a park visitors' center and one for the ship, which included such things as recovered supplies (such as Lea & Perrin's Worcestershire sauce from the officers' mess).
More recently we traversed most of the Trace, though not quite all. I was especially impressed with a high bridge over a rural valley in central Tennessee.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Nov 5, 2019 9:22:05 GMT -8
I was browsing what Amazon Prime Video had in regard to the Civil War. I ran across one called Gettysburg: The Aftermath by Kent Masterson Brown. This is little more than an amateur video. Brown is also the presenter and has a good quality about him. But the video itself is a run-on sentence. Had he consulted with Kung & Nelson Video Marketing, he could have been given some advice on how to have a point. But he did start the video with an interesting proposition. And that was that the propelling force for Lee going north was foraging. Northern Virginia had become a wasteland because of the many battles there. Supplies were short. Maybe this was’t the primary force, but it may have been a contributing cause to Lee venturing north. And I liked the idea of the video delving into logistics. Brown noted (and this was the part that ran on an on) the various field hospitals set up by the Confederate army in and around Gettysburg. I wish this guy would do another video and get it right because this is an often forgotten aspected — the true army of infrastructure behind the scenes. He notes that some of the Confederate supply trains stretched for 30 miles. And pulling out of Gettysburg was as difficult as getting there. He also does a bit of showing the on-site locations which was another feature I really liked. But the video itself was dull. And then I watched (or am still watching) another video I found on Amazon Prime called Guns of the Civil War. The presenter, Ian McCollum, is a very personable fellow. This is basically just a long episode of Antique Road Show for all intents and purposes. It’s just a guy sitting at a folding table discussing guns. But he knows a lot about the guns and it’s very interesting from that aspect. I’m about three-fifths into the show and he’s gone through about five guns most of which were Confederate guns and/or guns that were not mass-produced. But they were produced in small quantities and were often purchased by individual soldiers. Most of the guns so far have been revolvers. The South did not have the industrial capacity of the north so they used brass in places of steel for parts of the gun. Brass worked but it was not as strong. Many of the guns he shows are a bit “gadgety” — almost having the look of one-off creations. Some have features that are technologically superior but that never caught on because they cost $40.00 a piece compared to about $14.00 for a Colt. The Springfield Model 1861 Rifle was made in the millions but the guns he’s showing were made in the dozens, maybe the hundreds at best. The weaponry of the time was crude and had the South been able to arm itself with a knock-off of the Henry repeating rifle as their standard weapon, they would have been invincible. Confederate Colonel John Mosby called it “that damned Yankee rifle that can be loaded on Sunday and fired all week.” The article at Wiki notes that even though Confederates captured more than a few of the Henrys, they were of little use because it was difficult to get the ammunition. In fact, another quite detailed video on the Battle of Chickamauga, it noted that a small Union force (Thomas?) in a good strategic position held off a vastly larger Confederate force because this particular band of Union soldiers had the Henry rifle (or Spencers). The Colt Model 1860 Revolver was mass-produced. Another Wiki article noted that it was the invention of the Bessemer steel process in the 1950s that made a lighter, stronger pistol such at the Colt Model 1860 possible. 8 Long Guns You Have to Know from the American Civil War. I found this to be a good primer. An interesting note on the Spencer was that these Ten-Tube Blakeslee Cartridge Boxes for available for quick reloading. Pretty nifty.
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Post by timothylane on Nov 5, 2019 9:51:16 GMT -8
Brown wrote one of the books I had on Lee's retreat from Gettysburg, with a view to the campaign as based largely on acquiring supplies. (He also wanted to transfer a lot of the campaigning to the North rather than northern Virginia. This was largely successful, though he was helped by Meade having to send the XI and XII Corps to Tennessee -- though only after Lee had sent Hood and McLaws from I Corps, with Pickett being sent to Petersburg and North Carolina to rebuild.)
Tucker, in the first chapter of his Chickamagua history, mentions that Wilder wanted Henry 16-shot repeaters for his brigade, but went with 7-shot Spencers because they were available. He noted that when the Confederates encountered them at Hoover's Gap, they thought they were outnumbered 5-1 -- though it must be said that exaggerating enemy numbers was common on both sides throughout the war.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Nov 5, 2019 11:37:20 GMT -8
Thank you. My life totally makes sense now. No wonder about the dreams of fighting the Gauls with Caesar.
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 5, 2019 11:50:43 GMT -8
That is interesting as the Bessemer process only became popular in the US during the 1870s.
It is no exaggeration to say that the Bessemer process was a major factor in revolutionizing the world. With the process, steel became cheap to produce thus it was substituted for other materials which might have been more expensive or not as good for a certain use. It gave engineers a tool to build things which would have otherwise been impossible to make. Railroads, high-rise buildings, automobiles, etc, etc, etc, would not have developed the way they did without steel, and Bessemer made steel affordable. Some call our time the ere of Silicon. The era before us was the era of steel.
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 5, 2019 11:53:58 GMT -8
Are your dreams something like this?
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Post by timothylane on Nov 5, 2019 11:58:29 GMT -8
There was also the open hearth method of producing steel, which came in around the same time and may have been more important in America. Certainly steel was already important by 1860, though the fact that the methods for producing it cheaply in mass may explain why the South had so little. Incidentally, at least for a while the Bessemer converter was often referred to as the Kelly converter at least in parts of America in reference to a Kentuckian who developed the same basic process. I remember this all came up in some class I was in back in the 60s, probably in high school (but I'm not sure).
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Post by timothylane on Nov 5, 2019 12:01:16 GMT -8
Asterix is a Gaul fighting Caesar (I think someone had one of the comics one day in high school), not fighting against the Gauls with Caesar. The Romans may not have a comic book hero, but after all they won. They don't need one.
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Post by kungfuzu on Nov 5, 2019 12:06:17 GMT -8
The Gauls look better.
And in case you missed the memo, this is how it really was back then.
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