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Post by timothylane on Feb 7, 2020 20:19:31 GMT -8
I had an inspiration tonight, and did a little checking on wikipedia. After my father was killed in Vietnam, the port he was working on (though apparently construction hadn't started yet) was named after him. Of course the new management would have changed the name long ago, but I decided to see if they had an entry mentioning it.
And so they did. The small port was built on Vung Ro Bay, and the short article on it mentioned the port, its (temporary) name, and why it got it. I've always wanted to see my father's name in print, and here was the opportunity. For anyone curious (it doesn't go into details, but what the heck), here is the link:
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 8, 2020 9:55:40 GMT -8
That's wonderful. I'm glad that your father's sacrifice was so recognized.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 11, 2020 19:48:09 GMT -8
I was about 11 or12 and with my father at MCRD SD. He was visiting with friends who were still on active duty. A platoon of new recruits was standing formation after their first night and the DIs were having a great time mind fucking them. As the Gunny was instructing them on how to march for chow, someone in the back started laughing. The DI went ballistic and headed directly at the poor maggot. He cursed him in every language you could imagine, and the fool just stood there and smiled. When the DI turned away he laughed again. The Gunny had enough, took out his services pistol and fired directly into the body. The guy dropped gave a couple of kicks and lay still. The platoon was in shock. The Gunny ordered three of them to pick up the body and toss it in a dumpster, then marched the platoon to breakfast.
My father and I went over to the dumpster and assisted the play acting recruit (staff sergeant) out of the dumpster. He changed and we all went to the NCO club for breakfast. Gunny joined us and assured everyone that he would win the best trained platoon award.
In Pat Conroy's Great Santini there is a similar story. I believe mine predates publication of the book, but the fact that there are two stories of this nature suggests it was a practice, if perhaps an uncommon one. I did basic in 1970 and MCRD SD had joined the Girl Scouts by then. The DIs were almost nice.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 11, 2020 20:04:24 GMT -8
I presume that was intended as a lesson in discipline, with the DI using a gun filled with blanks. The only time I can recall seeing my father with his command was at Fort Campbell, when he called out the 39th Engineer Battalion to assemble. They did, but that's all I remember. No lessons in discipline that day. Of course, I have no idea if the Army ever did such things. (I could imagine Heinlein's MI doing that, but they're based on the Marines -- and from before your time -- even if he refers to them as the Army.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 12, 2020 9:03:42 GMT -8
That certainly would have gotten my attention. It's my understanding that Gunnery Sergeant Hartman ("steers and queers") may no longer be allowed. But those old stories are grand. I'm sure the new ones are "I put extra sugar in the recruit's coffee...that will teach her."
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Post by artraveler on Feb 12, 2020 10:34:18 GMT -8
I find it interesting that in spite of the changes in training the marines we put in the field are better trained, more fit, and better equipped than ever. A large part of that I give to the ethos of the Corp. But a larger part is attributable to the skill of the NCOs who actually run the service.
I had a friend in artillery in Nam. On a visit to his firebase I watched his crew load and fire 155mm guns rapidly and with great skill. I commented on this to my friend. He said, "these guys can load and shoot for hours, take the gun apart and put back together in the dark. All they need is an NCO to tell them which way to point it."
In the Caine Mutiny, Keefer remarks, "the navy is a grand design by genius, for execution by idiots" There is an element of that. But our NCOs are the most competent and skilled since the Spartans. Without them our military would be a well equipped force incapable of invading a kindergarten. The sign of the real downturn of the military will be senior NCOs retiring without equally skilled replacing them.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 12, 2020 11:21:24 GMT -8
I’ll take your word for it. I really don’t know. Still, given how much rot there is at the top of the armed services, I’m surprised it’s not much worse on the ground floor. It’s good to hear that apparently it is not. Just this morning I had an impromptu conversation with a Navy veteran. He was a nuclear specialist. He did not serve on the Missouri when it was reactived by Secretary of the Navy, John Lehman, in 1984 and eventually recommissioned in 1986 after upgrades. But he was still somewhat in the loop. He was telling me about the nuclear shells that were developed to fire out of the 16 inch guns. Apparently their explosive power wasn’t all that much. They were meant to be very “dirty” and radioactive. Apparently crews who worked anywhere near the shells had to be timed on a stopwatch and their time limited. This was before better techniques and/or shell casing were developed. Who shoots nukes out of the barrel of a gun anymore? I wonder if anyone does, at least not off of a ship. He had given me the name for the shell. Something like MB 755. But I don’t remember exactly. There is a XM-785 mentioned on Wiki that sounds like it. |
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Post by artraveler on Feb 12, 2020 12:26:00 GMT -8
Who shoots nukes out of the barrel of a gun anymore? Russians!! The Russians never let anything hay can use go to waste. They still warehouses of equipment from WWII in storage in the Urals. Vintage T-34s, imagine that, and rooms of other stuff. I have no doubt they developed an artillery shell capable of nuclear use. My guess is that they let it degrade until it was of no use and dismantled them under the START treaty, claiming wrongly, that they were dismantling warheads. However, given tensions with the PRC in the east my guess is that they have reconstituted the program and are prepared to use them in a ground war with PRC. In spite of the kiss /kiss in public. Siberia is one of the most volatile flashpoint and the Russians and PRC have no love for each other. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 12, 2020 12:40:32 GMT -8
The Pickers need to make a visit to Mother Russia. I would love to see what are in the archives. One wonders if anyone has started developing a warhead that can be delivered by drone. I guess they do have those large military drones that surely can do the job. I was thinking something lighter and compact that would work for carry-on. 
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Post by artraveler on Feb 14, 2020 9:31:01 GMT -8
With the end of WW II my father left the Marines and married my mother. I followed shortly thereafter in the first wave of the baby boomers. In 1949 he joined the Army National Guard as an E-8. His explanation was that the NG doesn't do anything to get paid and the chances of war were slim.
In June 1950 the N Koreans invaded the South and Truman activated the reserves and NG. Do you need to guess whose NG unit was called up first? My dad explained to me some years later that he spent several days arranging to get out of the army and back to marines. As a 1st Marine vet and Guadalcanal survivor, 2/7, he called in some Pull(er) and went back to 1st Marines as E-7. By November of 1950 he was at the spa of Chosin Reservoir.
I asked him why he took a reduction in rank from E-8 to E-7 and he said, "son people get hurt in the marines, but they get killed in the army"
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Post by timothylane on Feb 14, 2020 9:41:00 GMT -8
The Army historian who did the official history of the first several months of the Korean War (South to the Naktong, North to the Yalu) also did a volume on the Chosin Reservoir campaign, though I don't know if it was intended as part of the official history. It probably comes as no surprise that I had both.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 14, 2020 10:02:03 GMT -8
Marines still get a lot of history at the recruit centers. Instead of Korea and WW II they tend to focus on Gulf War I and II. The battles of Fallujah feature as that is when the DIs were privates and corporals. Then there is the Commandant's reading list. Any marine who want to go beyond E-3 better be able to quote from the recommended books for their rank. The tradition of knowledge of history is a marine standard, goes all the way back to Tun Tavern.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 14, 2020 10:21:37 GMT -8
LOL. That’s a great quote. Here’s the Chosin Reservoir via Google Map.  |
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Post by timothylane on Feb 14, 2020 12:09:28 GMT -8
I couldn't see anything that looked like I would expect Chosin Reservoir would look even though I know where it is on the map. But the sudden contrast between light and dark makes it easy to see where the border is. It's fair to say the difference between capitalism and Communism is like the difference between night and day.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 27, 2020 13:46:19 GMT -8
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Post by timothylane on Feb 27, 2020 14:19:57 GMT -8
Something tells me that this particular Marine Corps general is an Obama Gangster. The Navy has also been heavily politically correct for some time ever since it was Patsy-whipped in the mid-1990s over female pilots and related issues (such as Tailhook).
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Post by kungfuzu on Mar 6, 2020 13:06:16 GMT -8
Today is a black date in Texas history. AlamoThe actual Alamo is a sacred shrine to Texans. |
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Post by timothylane on Mar 6, 2020 13:27:10 GMT -8
I've visited the Alamo twice, the second time being when Elizabeth and I attended the San Antonio Worldcon in 1997. They had a setup displaying the Mexican breakthrough in the final assault, as well as numerous exhibits (I think including the Gonzalez "Come And Take It" banner). And, as it happens, the school in which I attended the first grade in Galveston was named after William Barrett Travis. I wonder if it still is.
And just a few days after that, Fannin's larger force was brought to bay at Coleto Creek, and after a hard fight in which Urrea's Mexicans suffered heavy losses from the Texas infantry. But Fannin surrendered on terms -- only to have them violated on the orders of Santa Anna, with his entire force (and a few others captured in some nearby actions earlier) executed (except maybe 10% who escaped).
And this is why the battle cry at San Jacinto was "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!"
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Post by artraveler on Mar 17, 2020 6:39:10 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 5, 2020 9:22:07 GMT -8
Very nice. I had missed that before.
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