Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 30, 2021 9:48:12 GMT -8
Hira Singh: When India Came to Fight in Flanders by Talbot Mundy. Available for free download at Gutenberg. I found it on my online library via the Libby app. Amazon would appear to have it for free as well. The book itself is readable enough…after all, I did finish it. There’s a general understatedness to it, a la H. Rider Haggard. And it is based roughly on a true story. But I wouldn’t call the story or characters particularly rich in depth. Nor is the writing artful. The author repeatedly uses the same shtick (disloyalty or doubt amongst the Sikhs to their leader, Ranjoor Singh). This device gets old fast and I have no idea why the author thought it was appealing. But this is, at heart, an adventure story. And you’ll have no problem keeping track of the names. All the Sikhs seem to have the last name of “Singh,” which apparently means “lion.” Hira Singh is Ranjoor Singh’s kinda-sorta second in command and the fellow who narrates the story. I really found no commendable characters in this novel other than Ranjoor Singh who is a brilliant strategist, and wise to the bone, but otherwise as tight-lipped as the Sphinx. I think Mr. Flu could read this and get something out of it. But this book isn’t for a general audience. You kinda-sorta get into the Sikh mindset although I would by no means call this a thick and rich historical novel full of enlightening and interesting minutia of the time and place. It’s kind of a light adventure with a veneer of historicity thrown on top. I think this is a fair review/synopsis from someone at GoodReads: Still, I did stay with the book for some damn reason.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 30, 2021 10:36:48 GMT -8
I will download this book and give it a try. You are correct about every Sikh's last name being Singh. The first time I heard this was in Singapore sometime in 1980. I was driving down the road with my boss and I believe some old Sikh stepped out in the road and I had to slow down or something. My boss said something like, "Be careful Mr. Singh" and I asked him how he knew the man was named Singh. In such ways does one learn the details of life. The Sikhs, like the Rajputs, have long been know for their martial qualities. They are not Hindus or Muslims. As such they have historically had a lot of trouble with these communities. Perhaps because of this, the Brits used them as soldiers in the Raj and later. It is the Sikh who one is generally thinking of when one thinks of an Indian wearing a turban. The link contains information about one of their most holy sites. Golden Temple Indira Gandhi ordered the storming of this building and many people were killed. Gandhi was a fool as her body guards were Sikhs and after this incident, she did not change them. As one might expect, she was assassinated by a couple of them. Shortly before this happened, I had planned to take my wife on a trip to India. After the assassination I decided it best to go elsewhere. I believe there are five objects which a male Sikh must wear/have with him. 1) a beard, 2) the turban, 3) a steel bangle on his wrist, 4) a large comb and I forget the other.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 30, 2021 11:15:22 GMT -8
Watched a movie yesterday, The Forgotten Army. It is a fictionalized story of the Indian soldiers and expats who were captured by the Japanese at Singapore when it surrendered to Japan. These soldiers who comprised the bulk of the British military at Singapore were offered by the Japanese relative freedom, resources and intelligence to form up the Indian National Army with the goal of driving the British out of India.
Led by Netiji Chandra over 50,000 signed up rather than be POWs. Many civilians, including a regiment of women, who served in combat. The story is a rather sad one as to this day the INA are considered persona non grata, receive no support from the Indian government and are considered traitors.
The story is interesting and the acting is above average for a movie made on a budget. The FX are ok, again budget concerns. This is a little known story of the war in Burma and Malaysia. One the Indians and the British are reluctant to discuss.
I have watched several Indian movies and TV shows in the last few years and the quality is steadily improving. Forgotten Army is one of the best I've seen.
Mr. Kung item number five is a dagger. There have been several incidents in Redding schools about the religious rights and the dagger.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 30, 2021 11:33:34 GMT -8
Mr. Flu, I found something on Wiki about The Five Ks: It would appear that the Sikhs have a type of magic underwear as well. I found a decent overview of the religion here.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 30, 2021 11:34:57 GMT -8
I'm going to see if I can find that.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 30, 2021 11:52:09 GMT -8
amazon prime
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 30, 2021 11:54:42 GMT -8
Glad you looked that up. I had forgotten that the beard was part of the uncut hair (as is the turban which holds up their long locks) and thought there was something to do with clothes, but I was thinking some sort of sash. I can't believe I forgot the most important thing, i.e. the knife/dagger. Kirpan
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 30, 2021 13:15:28 GMT -8
I’ll take my stab at it. But what would you and Artler say are The Five (Choose Your Capital Letter)’s of Leftism? It can be an item you carry with you or just a trait.
Here is my The Five P’s of Leftism.
1) Pansifed 2) Puerile 3) Prima Donna 4) Pugnacious 5) Perverted
I know you all can do better (and be funnier). But I just thought I’d kick things off.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 30, 2021 15:05:52 GMT -8
I am not sure I can't do better, but I will add my bit.
We have a plethora of puerile, yet pugnacious pansified prima donna perverts who are paralysed by pandemic-porn propaganda propagated by our putrid press, parasitical politicians and poisonous plutocrats.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 30, 2021 21:51:53 GMT -8
Artler, I watched about the first third of the first episode. It would appear to be a pretty good production. I wanted to bitch-slap that stupid liberal kid back to next Thursday. But it looks like his uncle could be a good influence on him. The series looks to be way more violent than I like to watch. But I may come back to it. Certainly those 50,000 Indians were in a difficult position, having to choose between rotting in prison or ousting the British from India — something that a great many countrymen were most certainly for anyway. Did the Japs really bikeride through the rubber plantations from up the peninsula? If so, that’s not a bit of history I’ve read about. Certainly one element in this is obnoxious. The series goes out of its way to say White Man Bad, at least in the early going. That doesn’t present much incentive to go further. They complain about the British having a monument to animals who served in WWII but there’s supposedly no monument or mention of the 2.5 million Indians who fought for the Empire. I find that hard to believe. But here’s an article that says the same thing. The stupid liberal yute said he’d heard nothing about the 2.5 million Indians who fought with and for the British. Is it also still the White Man’s Burden to decide the curriculum in Indian schools? I sort of smell a rat in all this British-bashing. I’m not really into gritty, realistic war movies anymore. Too graphic. Too violent. So I think for the time being I’ll go back to another series I started on Britbox: Whitechapel. It’s about a serial killer who is recreating the Jack the Ripper murders in all the grisly detail. Well, this is all pretty graphic as well. Jack the Ripper or Nip the Ripper. Take your pick. But I’ll give Whitechapel an episode or two and see where it goes and maybe get back to this other one later.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 31, 2021 9:03:45 GMT -8
They certainly did this on the Malayan Peninsula. Thousands came down the East Coast Road. The Brits had build concrete pill boxes on the road to provide a defense. Some of these pill boxes were still there when I lived in Singapore. I drove up the East Coast Road several times to take a weekend vacation. After the war, the road may have been more dangerous than during it. It was a narrow two-lane strip curving along the coast and was the only way to travel down to Johor Bahru and then Singapore. Overloaded trucks carrying logs drove dangerously down the thing. They were know for smashing into cars and killing their passengers. One had to be on the lookout driving up the road. Part of the movie "South Pacific" was filmed on an island off the coast of Malaysia and one passed it driving to Kuantan. Tioman This is the hotel in Kuantan which we would stay in. It has been remodeled, but was very nice even back in the 1980s and 1990s. Hyatt Kuantan They had the best Nasi Lemak that I ever ate. I had it for breakfast many mornings.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 31, 2021 10:35:07 GMT -8
Thanks for the info and insights.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 31, 2021 11:40:16 GMT -8
I was thinking further about the Japanese invasion of Malaya and Singapore and the East Coast Road. As I mentioned, the Brits had build some very stout concrete pills boxes along the road, expecting the Japanese to stick to the road when invading. The Japanese use of bicycles through the rubber plantations did much to simply bypass the pill boxes, leaving them vulnerable and useless. I was lucky enough to meet a couple of old Brits who had taken part in the Malay Campaign. One was a foot soldier, the other commanded a two-man tank. The other member of that tank team was an Indian, as I recall a Sikh. Malayan Campaign
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Post by artraveler on Jul 31, 2021 14:07:24 GMT -8
Artler, I watched about the first third of the first episode. Believe it or not, for an Indian movie this one is actually short on violence. I suppose the Indians replace sex with violence. There are a bunch of Indians movies on Netflix and some of them could be called beheadings R' us. the battles in Forgotten Army are relatively short, but there is a lot of slo-mo bodies flying about. I think the overall story is a compelling one of 50,000 men and women seeking to throw the British out. I'm personally glad they weren't Jewish. One disaster per war is all we can take. But, this is a little talked about side bar of the war and neither the British or the Indians want to talk about it. In real terms Arthur Percival surrendered 90,000 troops to an opposing force of 30,000 and he later received a KGB. 50,000 Indian troops mutinied and got lost in history.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 31, 2021 14:11:29 GMT -8
Malaya and Singapore I flew into Kl and Singapore a couple of times, on Air America, but never had the time to explore. I would have like to see those pillboxes, a monument to static defenses and linear thinking.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 31, 2021 16:36:55 GMT -8
We should not get an overly simple idea of the British in India. The only reason the Brits were able to establish the Raj is because there were competing interests on the subcontinent who hated each other. Of course, the Brits were past masters at taking advantage of such situations.
That being said, minorities such as the Sikhs were often treated much better by the Brits than by Muslims or Hindus. For that matter, this was probably also the case for the vast majority of Indians who were not of the top three castes.
Depending on how one defines languages, there are from about thirty to over 100 different languages. There are a number of very different religions and ethic groups. Contrary to the propaganda spewed out by our modern mass media, these groups did not all get along like hippies singing Kumbaya around a campfire smoking dope.
Believe me, with the percentage of Brits living in the Raj being less that 2% of the total population, they did not maintain power through brute force alone. In fact, they were surprisingly light handed in this regard.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 31, 2021 17:47:27 GMT -8
Believe me, with the percentage of Brits living in the Raj being less that 2% of the total population, they did not maintain power through brute force alone. In fact, they were surprisingly light handed in this regard. I agree fully. If I must have a master the British are the very best, but why have a master at all? I believe that is the idea that Mahatma Gandhi was trying to get across to the English. The same message that Haganah and Irgun had to teach them in 1947/48.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 31, 2021 19:44:43 GMT -8
Gandhi was a mess of different impulses. From requiring his niece, I believe, give him enemas every night, to pushing primitive production methods, to doing his best to get the British out of an "India,"which was a myth. Note the creation of Pakistan and then Bangladesh, to the forceful takeover of Goa and other states which did not wish to join "India."
I do believe he was pushing for a degree of self-determination which was impossible in a colonial setting. Of course, it was from the Brits that Gandhi and others in "India" learned of self-determination. In fact, the Brits are probably more responsible for more spreading the idea of self-determination across the globe than even the Americans. The French would come in a distant third.
The truth of the matter is that, historically speaking, most nations have more masters than representatives. We are seeing this again in the way things are moving across the globe. We have lost a huge amount of our freedoms in the USA since 9/11. Today, the French government is ordering everyone to be vaccinated. The Australian government has the army out to force people back inside their homes. Governments are not listening to the people.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 31, 2021 21:15:02 GMT -8
Of course, it was from the Brits that Gandhi and others in "India" learned of self-determination. In fact, the Brits are probably more responsible for more spreading the idea of self-determination across the globe than even the Americans Yep, in almost every case of revolutionary leaders in Asia they were educated in English mission schools. I suppose that is another of the white man's burdens.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 1, 2021 7:47:42 GMT -8
That reminds me that in the movie, Patton, of this exchange between Patton and a subordinate:
The Germans, of course, simply went around the Maginot Line. Apparently when gunpowder was invented and used effectively, the days of fixed fortifications were numbered. Still, they never went out of use or lost their utility. What is a tank but a mobile fortification?
An interesting bit from that Wiki article:
I guess that pretty much defines “total disaster.”
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