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Post by timothylane on Aug 23, 2019 10:28:25 GMT -8
Yes, the Russians can be quite white, and often quite blond. I seem to recall a book on German plans for Russia (and how they worked out) commenting on how odd it no doubt seemed to Germans that blond-haired Slavs were Asiatic subhumans while the Crimea Tartars were at least allies of the Aryans. (Actually, Aryans really only is used ethnologically for the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indo-Europeans. Ironically, the most Aryan people in Germany were probably the handful of "subhuman" Gypsies. Elizabeth says that the confusion happened by confusing Aryan with Arian, the followers of St. Arius. The Germanic Christians tended to be Arian. The dispute was over the nature of Christ, but I don't recall the exact details of who believed what.)
I've also read that the Russians can be quite racist -- against blacks and Asians (including Turkic types, who were quite common in the Soviet empire).
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2019 10:54:44 GMT -8
Interesting factoids. Sparking, even. I read some of that Wiki article. If the French don’t like it, sign me up. Very nice. Such an honor, I guess, making Champagne for the Proletariat. Aka “McDonald’s” of sparkling wine. Not that I don’t love a good quarter pounder with cheese. But apparently they kept improving it:
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 10:56:33 GMT -8
Speaking of White Russians and spies, here is a joke I heard many years ago from a German Jew.
The CIA recruited Jim out of college and trained him for years with the intent of using him as a spy in Russia. After years of work, Jim was ready and the CIA parachuted him into the middle of the Soviet Union.
Immediately after his drop, Jim walked into a bar and asked for a a bottle of vodka and started drinking.
After a few minutes the bar tenders looked at Jim and said, "You drink like a Russian, but you're not Russia."
Jim was aghast and started dancing the traditional Russian fold dance kicking his legs out slapping his thighs and squatting like a Cossack.
He went back to the bar tender and said, "Hah! How do you like that?" To which the Russian replied, "Very nice, but you're still not Russian."
At this Jim grabbed a balalaika and started playing it like a professional all the time singing a mournful song like only a Russian can sing one.
After this, Jim returned the balalaika to the bar tender and said, "Now doesn't that prove I am a Russian?"
The bar tender then said, "Yes you speak like a Russian, drink like a Russian, dance like a Russian and sing like a Russian, but you are still not a Russian."
To which Jim replied, "May I ask you why you still maintain that I am not a Russian?"
The bar tender said, "Simple, we have no negroes in Russia.
Rim shot.
I think this was, among other things, a commentary on the sophistication of American spies and perhaps on intelligence services in general. Too often, they miss the obvious.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2019 10:59:39 GMT -8
As one commenter said, and I quote:
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 11:07:31 GMT -8
Arianism was the largest and most dangerous heresy in early Christianity. As I recall, Arians did not believe Jesus was made by God the Father. This put the Catholic theology of the Trinity into question and caused huge splits in the Church. The Catholics fought the Arians across Europe and the Middle East, weakening themselves thus opening the way for Muslims to take over large parts of the Byzantine Empire and Spain.
The Goths and Visagoths and maybe the Vandals were Arians. The Franks were Catholic and finally crushed the Visagoth Kingdoms in Spain and brought all of Western Europe under the Catholic Church. The Byzantine Empire also held the traditional view of the Trinity thus was constantly on the lookout for Arians, Nestorians and other Eastern heresies.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 11:19:00 GMT -8
That was a wonderful clip of Alexei Arkhipovskiy. Listening to it, brought a big smile to my face.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 11:22:26 GMT -8
I am glad you could display a photo of the bottles. I drank a few of those in the old days. It brings back good memories of times when one had little money, but lots of good will and energy. Who needs Moet Chandon when one has those things?
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2019 11:29:01 GMT -8
I doubt anything like this was even conceivable by whoever invented this instrument. Truly remarkable.
I'd never heard of the guy. But you mentioned the instrument.
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Post by timothylane on Aug 23, 2019 12:04:39 GMT -8
L. Sprague de Camp had a scene in Lest Darkness Fall in which the main character, Martin Padway (sent back in time by a lightning bolt to Rome as Justinian is about to invade Italy), gets caught up in a barstool argument with various Christian sects over the nature of Christ. He identifies as a Unitarian, which he tells each disputant is the closest thing his society (someplace distant; he never details exactly what the difference is) had to theirs.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2019 13:41:49 GMT -8
I wonder if they have to keep a fire extinguisher standing by. Those who want to learn more about the instrument can go to this page where they will find such insightful information as: The balalaika (Russian: балала́йка, pronounced [bəɫɐˈɫajkə]) That helps.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 13:45:07 GMT -8
Moscow 1985 It took eleven years to get back to Moscow after my 1974 visit. I can recall, very vividly, several things about the latter trip. I was on one of my round-the-world business trips during the late summer or early fall. On this stage, I flew from London to Moscow In those days, when going through customs in Moscow, one had to declare what currency one was carrying into and out of the Soviet Union. Since I had visited a number of different countries during my trip, I had something like seven or eight different types of money with me. I carried these in a special leather wallet which had a number of separate sections in which one could segregate the various currencies. As the reader may recall from my earlier story, Soviet citizens were not known for their joviality, and this especially applied to Soviet bureaucrats like customs officials. There are however exceptions. I can remember the lady who was checking the currency form which I filled out. She was noting each currency and finally laughing out loud as my list kept going. She even smiled at me as I showed her my wallet. It was good that I had started my visit to Moscow with such a happy occurrence as a series of mishaps followed. When I went to pickup my luggage, it turned out that it had not arrived. I probably spent an hour waiting to make sure this was really the case, and then had to fill out the necessary claim forms. As I had lost so much time, the only taxi I could get to town was a very beat-up car, which had seen much better days. My brief-case and I entered the car and off we went to Moscow. We drove along very slowly, which was a blessing of sorts, considering the state of the car. I immediately noticed a hole in the floor through which I could see the road passing by. As if this were not enough, the car broke-down shortly thereafter. The driver got out and started fooling around under the hood. Figuring that repairs might take a while, I got out of the car and started strolling around a field which was adjacent to the road. As I walked and watched, I could see nothing happening fast when my right shoe fell apart. I was wearing something like a penny loafer and the thread connecting the upper part to the rest of the shoe broke. It didn’t just tear a little, almost three inches of the upper were separated from the lower part. The shoe would not stay on my foot unless I walked on my heel with my toes pointing up. As I gimped my way back to the car, the driver saw this and we both had a good laugh. Somehow, the driver got the old jalopy running and we made it to the Intourist Hotel. Now, I had two problems. The first was to buy new shoes or repair the old one. The second was to buy some toiletries as my suitcase was anywhere but in Moscow. I got a ride to GUM the department store on Red Square. One must remember that this was “The” department store of the Soviet Union. I arrived shortly before closing time, but there was still a chance to get in and buy the few items I needed. I stumbled inside dragging my foot, like Igor of Frankenstein fame, ready to spend my rubles for Soviet products, but was shocked to find that there was virtually nothing inside GUM for sale. I searched for shoes and could find none. I searched for a toothbrush and toothpaste to no avail. From counter to counter I went getting more desperate as time went on. I finally found someone who had something like a Boy Scout’s camping toothbrush and a small tube of toothpaste like one gets on business class during an international flight. That was it. I went back to my hotel and somehow found some thick thread and a needle with which I could temporarily repair my shoe. So at least I no longer looked like Chester walking down a Dodge City street. That night, I was invited to a business dinner with someone from RaznoImport/Export. All I can recall about that is that the food was not so great, mainly smoked and dried fish with some pickled vegetables. Still, there was plenty of vodka. Although he asked me if I had any preferences, I let my host order everything as I knew this food was better than what he generally ate, and he would take the leftovers home with him. He did. After dinner, I walked around the city for a short while. I went down one of those underground walkways which keep pedestrians from clogging the streets and saw, for the first time in my life, a bunch of Punks. There in Soviet Russia roamed a gang of rowdies with multicolored spiked-hair, sporting black-leather with steel studs. Upon spotting these communist paragons, I decided to turn around and go back to my hotel. I saw my host again the next morning and after that meeting was over, I had time to kill until my flight to Tokyo that evening. I went out walking around Red Square and decided to have lunch at the famous National Hotel. I asked to be shown into the dining room, and was led to a round table in a large room where everyone was speaking Russian. The waiter came up to me and started talking to me in Russian and I had no idea what he was saying. Luckily, I had been seated next to two British businessmen who were fluent in Russian, and they helped me with my order. When the waiter left, the Brits laughed a bit and said that I had been seated in the wrong dining room. As a foreigner, I was supposed to be eating in the dollar dining room, i.e. the one where all bills were charged in dollars. For some reason, I had been placed in the ruble dining room where everything was charged in rubles. The food was the same but the bills in the ruble room were much cheaper than in the dollar room. I had no idea why I was brought to the ruble room unless it was because many people thought I looked Slavic. In any case, it was a stroke of good luck that I had landed there. And not just because of the prices. It turned out that the two Brits had been doing business with the Soviet Union for many years. As I recall, one had been doing business there for about twenty years and the other for about fifteen. Both spoke fluent Russian and both had a very good grasp of what was going on in the Soviet Union. We spoke over lunch and toward the end of it, our conversation turned to politics and what was happening in the USA. It was then that I learned how correct President Reagan was in his handling of the USSR. They asked me about Reagan and American politics, and I told them what I knew, which was not a whole lot. In reply, they told me that whoever was behind Reagan’s Soviet policy it was brilliant. They based this observation on the belief that Reagan’s goal was to force Gorbachev and the USSR into a corner by making them choose between increased military spending or helping the ordinary consumer. By forcing the Soviet to do this, Reagan would bring change to the USSR as it couldn’t keep up with the USA. What ever decision Gorbachev made would be bad for the communists. In the end, it would break them. That lunch was the high-point of my trip. Whenever I hear fools say that Reagan didn’t have much to do with the downfall of the USSR, I think of these two British businessmen who in 1985 actually knew what was happening. After lunch I made my way to the airport and, low and behold, my suitcase was there. It turned out that the people at Heathrow had mistakenly labeled my luggage for destination Munich, not Moscow. Oh well, such are the pitfalls of international travel. I went back through customs and another lady smiled at the number of currencies which I carried. I then took an Aeroflot flight from Moscow to Tokyo, which was the longest overland flight I have ever taken. On most international flights, one flies over a lot of water. But Moscow to Tokyo is over Siberia and Siberia is huge. I was amazed at the vastness of the place. Normally on night flights, one sees a fair number of lights on the ground. Not so over Siberia. It was just a vast blackness, with the occasional small bright spot. And I finally had something to spend some rubles on. During the flight the stewardess offered a number of different items for sale. One of these was a beautiful amber necklace which I bough for my wife. She still wears it.
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Post by timothylane on Aug 23, 2019 15:28:22 GMT -8
Well, at least they didn't steal your money on the way in or out. I'm sure I encountered the argument that Reagan basically forced Gorbachev to spend more on defense, which was incompatible with his plans to provide more consumer goods. In particular, he believed the Soviets (for various reasons) could never keep up with the Strategic Defense Initiative (mocked by Demagogue appeasers as Star Wars).
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Post by artraveler on Aug 23, 2019 16:32:27 GMT -8
Interesting factoids. Sparking, even. Another interesting factoid. Modern French wine is not, repeat not, French they are American. Around the turn of the 19th/20th century there was a blight in the French wine country that destroyed the grape vines. French grower desperate for quality cutting imported millions of cuttings from Napa Valley to restore their fields. I suppose that the argument could be made that since these vines had French origin they could still be called French, however they were resistant to the blight due to American genetic growing standards making them IMHO completely American. The work of an obscure monk, Gregor Mendel, a German speaking Czech saved the French wine industry.
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Post by timothylane on Aug 23, 2019 17:02:45 GMT -8
Hmm. We got European chestnuts to make up for the American chestnuts lost to the blight, and the French (and probably other Europeans) got American wine grapes to make up for a different blight. What we need now is a blight to wipe out kudzu. I don't think we'll need to import a replacement in that case.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 23, 2019 18:08:27 GMT -8
Researchers at the University of Arkansas cheminical enginering dept. have found a process for turning kudzu into bio fuel, at this time the process is not cost effective.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 19:03:38 GMT -8
Not to pour rain on Napa Valley's parade, but it was a Texan and Texan rootstock which saved French wine.
I visited the museum dedicated to Munson about 15-20 years ago. It is surprising to think that the French wine industry would be kaput without North Texan expertise.
OK, Munson did later recommend some California rootstock for certain areas in France, but that does not compare to the contribution from Texas.
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Post by timothylane on Aug 23, 2019 19:28:55 GMT -8
One doesn't think of Texas as wine country, although I vaguely recall reading about something about it, I think in National Geographic, a couple of decades back. I had the impression this was fairly new, but it may just be that a minor industry was becoming a major one. While we were living in Galveston we picked up a copy of some Texas almanac that included information on the state's industries (including production by county of major crops -- Galveston County wasn't exactly important for any of those listed). I don't recall seeing anything about grapes or wine, but that doesn't prove anything.
As an addendum, I checked in wikipedia. Munson wasn't a native Texan, and in fact got his degree at the University of Kentucky. He also supplied phylloxera-resistant rootstocks to California wineries, so those Napa wines may actually have been Texan rather than French. (Texas has many native species of grapes.) Prohibition eliminated the Texas wine industry, which began recovering in the 1970s which no doubt explains the article I read on it. (It still isn't major yet.)
The article on Bell County didn't mention the wine industry even in the historical portion. The county is best known for the Luby's Cafeteria and Fort Hood mass shootings.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 23, 2019 20:10:57 GMT -8
There is a popular bumper sticker which one sees in Texas. It reads,
"I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as soon as I could."
Munson followed his brothers here and stayed. It seems most people in Texas are from somewhere else, but many seem to stay here once they arrive.
If I recall correctly, there are many wild grape varieties in Texas and the U.S. in general. The problem is that most are useless for making wine. Munson apparently spent his life studying the various types of grapes and found those that could be used in the wine industry.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 23, 2019 23:11:52 GMT -8
Well, you will have to take that up with Christian Brothers thats where I got my info. But they did have skin in the game, so perhaps they exaggerated a bit.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 24, 2019 8:14:54 GMT -8
LOL. That paints a picture.
That was awful white of you. I mean nice. Really.
Hey. I thought this was a police state? Where’s the state police when you need them?
I’ve heard of smoking and non-smoking areas. But seating via currency is interesting. I was going to say that you must have looked like good peasant stock or something.
Very interesting on-scene reporting, even if reaching back decades. I do think it’s reasonable to say that one thing paramount on Reagan’s mind was breaking the Soviet Union by out-spending them. I think everyone was aware of that. What I was not aware of was this simple calculus between military and domestic spending. From the book I’m reading, it mentions that inside Russia it was a common fact that the store shelves were awful bare but billions were being spent on the Soviet military. And this went far beyond the need for protecting its citizens. There was an ingrained paranoia that fueled the military spending, probably along with the need for prestige. And the empty store shelves garnered no love for Communism.
Munich? Moscow? What’s the different as far as luggage is concerned. You can always buy replacement items. Oh…except when you’re in self-impoverished Russia.
Oh, geez. That is long. You could have read War and Peace….or at least viewed a film adaptation of it. What an amazing journey, especially getting a eyes-on view of how vast Siberia is. Looking at a map isn’t going to give you that.
And a happy ending…and amber necklace for the wife. And she still wears it. I imagine a lot of thoughts cross your mind when you view that necklace.
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