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Jan 15, 2020 10:32:06 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 10:32:06 GMT -8
Strangely enough, I was thinking about this last night and came to the conclusion that the elders could not have had a point at that time, if only because I had moved away a few years prior to this episode took place and I still attended church before moving, at least irregularly. They may have had an inkling of my eventual direction (I doubt it) but if that was the case, more study should have been put into finding out the truth.
Only generally? I admit, there are some beliefs and occasions which I believe deserve zero good will, in fact they deserve derision and scorn. I am sure you have noticed a number of such beliefs/actions which I hold in contempt.
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Jan 15, 2020 10:34:39 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 15, 2020 10:34:39 GMT -8
I think there was a scene at the Crystal Palace in Michael Crichton's The Great Train Robbery (which starred Sean Connery and Donald Sutherland). I would love to have seen it in its heyday.
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Brad Nelson
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Jan 15, 2020 11:38:26 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 15, 2020 11:38:26 GMT -8
I would have loved to have seen The Crystal Palace as well as The White City in Chicago. I watched The Great Train Robbery recently but don't recall if they visited the Crystal Palace.
This photo, which I found at random, is marked as "the abandoned pedestrian subway" of the Crystal Palace. There might then still be some cool things to see over there.
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Jan 15, 2020 11:50:51 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 11:50:51 GMT -8
I think you might find the Moscow Metro interesting. It is famous for its various ornate subway stations.
I think I may have written about my eerie experience there.
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Brad Nelson
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Jan 15, 2020 12:17:57 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 15, 2020 12:17:57 GMT -8
Here's a gorgeous image of the Moscow Metro that I found on the web: [ Original]
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Brad Nelson
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Jan 15, 2020 12:31:18 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 15, 2020 12:31:18 GMT -8
Fortunately, Mr. Kung, we are not a Utopian community here at Reviews-and-Things. We — shockingly — have a diversity of opinion.
That dressing down by the church elders surely stuck in your father’s and your craw. I’m not exactly sure where the “craw” is on the body. But things get stuck there.
My own imperfect view is that there are things in the world that should be crawed and things that should be un-crawed. There are things to berate and things to praise. There are times when the craw should be full of grit so that things get stuck there. Other times we should be lubricated like ducks’ backs off of which the water flows easily.
In theory. In a perfect world.
I’m trying to think of the worst time when I was crawed by some religious experience or person. I have to admit, normal religious zealots don’t really get under my skin all that much. The religious zealots who do are the atheists. I just don’t like the dishonesty. If someone wants to believe that God is good, that the world has purpose, or even that they are better than me for believing what they do, all I can say is, “Could be.”
But those atheists. What a bunch of dishonest pricks. Not only do they think they are better than me (which I’ve already stated is not a deal-breaker necessarily), but they are dishonest. That is one thing that sticks in my craw.
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Jan 15, 2020 12:40:13 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 15, 2020 12:40:13 GMT -8
The scene may have been in the book (also by Crichton). The stories are extremely similar, naturally, but not identical. He may have found it difficult to recreate adequately.
Yes, it would have been nice to see the White City, with the original Ferris wheel. (As long as we didn't stay in H. H. Holmes's castle. Not a safe place to stay.) Probably there are a lot of such expos that really would have been nice to see. (I wonder what the 1942 World's Fair in Rome that got sacrificed to World War II would have been like. Count Ciano, visiting Germany, cited that and its possible benefits as one reason Mussolini was reluctant to go to war.) We did visit the 1964 World's Fair in New York for a few days on our way back from Greece. We also spent a day in Disneyland in 1960, on our way out of California.
That scene from the Moscow Metro looks like something by M. C. Escher. I wonder if he ever saw it.
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Jan 15, 2020 12:46:22 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 12:46:22 GMT -8
I know many people are irritated by those who try to convert them, but not I. I believe I have mentioned that I find it somewhat touching that others might be concerned about the state of my soul and wish to help me find God.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 13:28:15 GMT -8
I hope you will enjoy this piece, which is one of my favorites.
I have always held music to be the highest of all the arts because it is the one which brings us closest to God. Why? Because music is created from nothing, it is thought manifest. "Let there be music" is as close to being godlike that man will ever get.
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Brad Nelson
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Jan 15, 2020 13:39:16 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 15, 2020 13:39:16 GMT -8
It’s actually kind of a game. I had a very nice JW fellow bring me a plate of cookies as thank you for a job we did for him. And I got invited to come to his church. Did he want me to drop off a Watchtower?
Yeah. Sure. Fine. However, I told him I was already fairly familiar with it having grown up with a JW friend. And, yes, his mother tried to introduce me to their stuff.
For whatever reason, I’m just not easy bait. I’m not smarter. Faster. I can’t leap tall building at a single bound. But when I was younger, I didn’t see the point. And now that I’m older, I see that the sale’s pitch is just outside of my wheelhouse. That’s not the kind of stuff that appeals to em. “Join and you can be one of us.”
A better approach is to talk turkey about real things, not to try to rope me into your own Religious Reality Distortion Field. Sure, I believe in God. But I don’t believe that the social arrangements people organize and give themselves over to are necessarily a means to get closer to god, although such things I’ll admit can work well for them.
So, yeah, I’m a tough nut to crack for this kind of stuff. Because I’m not in the slightest tempted to become an overnight Scientologist, the pitches just don’t bother me much. Like you, I kinda see (despite some of the groupthink creepiness) that they do kinda-sorta have my best interests at heart.
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Brad Nelson
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Jan 15, 2020 14:00:09 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 15, 2020 14:00:09 GMT -8
Since music is of the gods (or God), I dialed up a high-quality recording on Apple Music: Debussy: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun: New York Philharmonic and Alan Gilbert. Very nice. I’ll check out some of his other stuff. I like your comments about music. Although paintings and sculpture are certainly on par, music is much more participatory. You don’t have to stand around and try to figure out what the artist had in mind. There is more of a direct connection. Granted, music appreciation can work as well as art appreciation to understand the nuances, the kraft, the subtle intentions, etc. But there’s a damn good reason when I was 15 years old I could be swayed by The William Tell Overture or Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture. What the hell did some kid know about Napoleon and his defeat? Now that I know a little more about the history, I can better appreciate why that is so moving. It is one of the greatest pieces of classical music to signify triumph.
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I’m listening to Debussy: Nocturnes right now. I can definitely sense he might have influenced John Williams.
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Jan 15, 2020 14:04:34 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 14:04:34 GMT -8
The ancients considered music to be magic and could use it to reach states of ecstasy. And I think there is no doubt that it was the "first" art.
The closest the plastic arts came to this type of idea is in the story of Pygmalion.
Great. One of my intents was to get others to take the time and learn of the many beauties out there. I have no idea how many people know the pieces I know, so I just put them out there as I think about them. Debussy wrote a number of beautiful/moving pieces.
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Jan 15, 2020 14:28:18 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 15, 2020 14:28:18 GMT -8
The beginning sequence (which is repeated several times) is familiar to me from somewhere, probably as the lead-in to a TV show or movie (or to a scene from one).
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Jan 15, 2020 15:25:11 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 15, 2020 15:25:11 GMT -8
I am sure you know this one, but it is worth listening to again and again.
Although it has been arranged for symphony orchestras, I prefer it on piano, which is how Debussy originally wrote it.
Music has brought great joy into my life and I only hope others might find something similar when they listen to it.
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Jan 16, 2020 13:50:23 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 16, 2020 13:50:23 GMT -8
It can be difficult to navigate these classic titles sometimes. But I finally found Clair de Lune. According to this article it is the third movement of a four-part work called “Suite Bergamasque.” There’s a lot more information about it, and Debussy, as well. Searching Apple Music will give you both. But a positive result for Clair de Lune might then (as it did in this case) take you to a Debussy album with a track listing that has no “Clair de Lune.” But the one I found does have a “Suite bergamasque.” Claude Debussy. Not to be confused with
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Jan 16, 2020 14:09:20 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 16, 2020 14:09:20 GMT -8
A comment by Debussy from that article you linked to.
Ah, magic. Seems like I have heard that before.
In "The Reformation" Durant writes:
It is difficult to explain, but the elusive and magical nature of art is one of the reasons I want to try and share it with others. There is something wonderful in hearing or viewing a work of art which is unlike almost anything else in life. Perhaps certain moments in nature are the closest to it.
When I was younger and first traveled the world, I was incredibly lucky to have many such experiences, particularly when seeing something like Michelangelo's Pieta for the first time. The joy and wonder simply wells up in you and you want others to experience this too, particularly someone you love.
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Jan 16, 2020 14:34:20 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 16, 2020 14:34:20 GMT -8
So in Judaism as in Christianity, the more orthodox/conservative your church, the better it's holding up in this secular age For Jews this has been the response to oppression for the last 2000 years. There is a growing trend in Jewish affairs that is in many ways much more secular but doesn't surrender to modern progressivism. The recreation of Israel has given a new focus on what it is to be Jewish. Being Jewish does not mean hiding in a seller waiting for the new Nazi. In some respects it is a holding action by orthodox. The meek submissive Jew is gone, dead in the ashes of the Shoah. We may be destroyed as a people, but we will never again die without fighting back. The orthodox community in Israel, and the US does have many followers and is the fastest growing segment of the Jewish community, but they know that the more secular Jews will defend them. The Jewish warrior has returned.
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Jan 16, 2020 15:43:46 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 16, 2020 15:43:46 GMT -8
Yes, that was a really nice quote from Debussy. Also, not to be confused with It’s either that or cat pictures. I think you come out way ahead on this. It’s very cool that you had the opportunity.
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Jan 16, 2020 15:50:34 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 16, 2020 15:50:34 GMT -8
I belong to The Holy Order of Benchwarmers. We just bitch about how all the other religious people aren’t doing it right.
But, seriously, I’m a yuge convert to Dennis Pragerism. Just as Jesus (one supposes) was a bridge from Jews to Gentiles, Prager is a bridge from gentiles back to Jews. I’m on board with that.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:11:41 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 16, 2020 16:11:41 GMT -8
I was very lucky to have seen it before they moved it behind a glass screen. To stand next to it and run my hand over it was a wonderful experience.
I started thinking about my first trip to Europe and pulled out my slides. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a picture of the Pieta. I suppose they asked us not to take photos inside St. Peter's. I do have a photo of
Mine is much darker. I also have a slide of
which is in Florence.
The Pieta is orders of magnitude more touching than either of the later.
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