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Post by artraveler on Jan 16, 2020 17:26:42 GMT -8
Prager is a bridge from gentiles back to Jews. I’m on board with that. Western civilization, Jewish and Christian, share a common concept of faith. We also share a common enemy. An enemy that murders our people, destroys our culture and if given the opportunity will destroy the world.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Jan 17, 2020 8:50:36 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 17, 2020 8:50:36 GMT -8
I think that’s certainly true. The complications are perhaps this: We were talking about mitochondria the other day. For those watching at home, mitochondria is the power factory found in most animal cells. That energy comes in the production of ATP which is reminiscent of charging a battery or winding up the rubber band on a balsa wood airplane. Because mitochondria has its own independent genome that shows substantial similarity to bacterial genomes ( Wiki), it’s thought that some ancient cell swallowed this bacteria and thus began a new and powerful symbiotic relationship. But that’s just a guess. But it could have happened something like that. And the idea of an existing institution swallowing something else and being substantially changed by it is readily apparent. This is how poison works. Or feminism. Or genderism. Or victimology. Or anti-white racism. Or anti-male sexism. Or anti-Americanism itself. Our institutions, including religion, have swallowed these various offshoots of Cultural Marxism. And whether they have provided a powerful and robust energy source for these institutions or instead act more like a virus is up for debate. I think the latter. Most who are involved emotionally and ideologically in this stuff would say the former, that all these creaky institutions are the better for the energy brought by the striving for “tolerance,” “equality,” “non-judgmentalism,” and “diversity.” Maybe. Maybe not. As Dennis Prager often says, “I prefer clarity over agreement.” The fundamental problem comes when moral ideas are subservient to ideas of race, class, or gender. You can’t have objective values that transcend mere superficial details if the superficial details are given preeminence. And that’s what has happened in most churches and synagogues. They’ve swallowed earthly Cultural Marxism and thus have no way of engaging G-d or absolute ideas, values, and metaphysics. They can reshuffle that Cultural Marxist deck a hundred times and they're not going to produce a vision of this world that isn’t thoroughly grounded in the baseness of this world despite the loud trappings of Kumbaya. In some ways, we’re waiting for a Moses and a Paul to bring these institutions back to their founding, of a God who commands not identity politics but for people to “act justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God.” Human nature is so petty, debased, egotistical, and narrow that such an aspiration is why Matthew 7:13-14 makes so much sense: “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” And when a pastor who I personally know brags about the number of atheists who attend his church, I’m thinking that gate is a bit wide at the moment in a great many places. Yes, we need to take the plank our of your own eye so that we can remove the speck from our brother’s eyes. That’s all fair and reasonable. Throwing the first stone, and all that. But anyone should be able to see that an earthly, almost pagan, religion based on the supposed ability to bring love and peace to all by focusing on grievances having to do with race, class, and gender is the path to destruction. Jews and Christians face that same challenge. The differences between them in regards to orthodoxy could be seen as mere specks compared to the plank of Cultural Marxism.
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Jan 17, 2020 9:39:46 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 17, 2020 9:39:46 GMT -8
I wonder why he is bragging. Is he trying to bring them to Jesus or just show his good-old openess?
I can imagine atheists questioning the pastor and his flock about the basis of their faith and bringing up some points which could be uncomfortable. But I think the believing Christian has the advantage here as the fall back position is "faith" and faith, particularly to the Protestant, is a gift of the Holy Spirit. The majority of mankind have not received the gift so they can't understand.
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Jan 17, 2020 10:40:09 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 17, 2020 10:40:09 GMT -8
Way back when, a pastor would have been happy to boast about the number of atheists who attended his church -- and whom he then converted. That was sort of their goal. An old biography of Dan Sickles I came across as a teen mentioned an incident when his brigade chaplain was concerned about getting converts and noting how many another brigade had gotten recently. (This makes one suspect that pride may have been more important to him than actually bringing them to God.)
Incidentally, I also recall the response the bio attributes to Sickles: "Hell, is that all? Detail fifty men for baptism." Sickles was certainly an interesting sort, particularly after he got away with murdering the DC district attorney, Philip Barton Key, for fooling around with his wife. (Never mind that fidelity wasn't exactly Sickles's strong suit. But what really annoyed upper-class Washingtonians was that Rep. Sickles actually took his wife back after that.) It was Sickles's lawyer, Edwin Stanton, who invented the defense of temporary insanity and the "unwritten law".
Today, one gets the impression (I recall we discussed this very pastor here a little while back) that he just likes having the atheists attend. Considering the shrinking congregations that most progressive churches see today, I suppose I can understand that. After all, are his views much different from theirs?
Incidentally, I once read that Texas had actually codified the unwritten law, allowing a husband to kill a man cuckolding him. Someone pointed out to legislators that there was something wrong with that, and they thought about it and agreed -- giving wives the same right. (Incidentally, a mistress reacting angrily to her married lover going back to his wife gave us Albert Fall as Secretary of the Interior, to the great benefit of Edward Doheny re Teapot Dome. Harding's first choice, an Oklahoma oilman, was persuaded by Florence Harding to drop his mistress if he wanted the job. And I've mentioned how the mistress reacted to that.)
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Jan 17, 2020 14:30:04 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 17, 2020 14:30:04 GMT -8
Again, I’m not his target audience. The teachers I had the most respect for in school were the tough (but fair) ones. Maybe it’s just the competitive instinct, or the people-pleasing instinct. But at least regarding academic subjects in high school, show me a teacher who didn’t automatically hand out gold stars for showing up and I’ll show you a class I worked my ass off in. (Conversely, by by own admission, I was a time-wasting hellion in a couple classes — almost always because of a lax lady playing at being a teacher…although my German teacher was a nice but no-nonsense lady and I did respect her.)
But that has changed. Whereas a more masculine vibe existed in my days whereby asses (proverbially) were more likely to be kicked (sometimes literally) as a form of motivation than egos stroked, that is not the case today from what I understand. And I think that crosses over to church as well. I mean, it’s just not polite to say “You’re going to hell.” But that’s what the doctrine reads.
It’s not polite to say to an atheist: “You or not only wrong but quite perhaps disastrously wrong.” Again, we can have that conversation again about whether a good God would really have an eternal hell, if “hell” means something else in the bible, or whatever. But it’s pretty clear it’s a place or state of being that you want to avoid. And atheism is pretty much the direct route to get there.
So, theoretically, making it easy for atheists to remain atheists (even in one’s church) just so that everyone’s egos can be stroked and so that nobody ever has to face the prospect of changing themselves seems to me like a vapid sort of church. Somewhere between urging people to strap on bomb vests and this loosy-goosy Kumbaya-licious no-one’s-feelings-ever-get-hurt Snowflake-ocracy, there has to be a happy medium.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:42:11 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 17, 2020 14:42:11 GMT -8
Well, most of the teachers I had before from 4th through 7th grades were women, though that includes 2 years in a Catholic school with no male teachers as far s I know. In the 8th grade I had a woman math teacher, and in 9th grade women teaching German, English, and biology After that I was at a boys' school that had only a single female teacher, who taught Typing & Notehand. I ended up taking that when my initial choice (Ancient History) turned out to be unavailable. (Her son was in my class.)
As far as I can recall, I probably learned about as well from the women as from the men. This was probably also true at Purdue, though I had fewer women teaching me there.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:56:40 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 17, 2020 14:56:40 GMT -8
And when a pastor who I personally know brags about the number of atheists who attend his church, I have encountered this in different forms. A friend who, for reasons passing understanding, decided to convert to Christianity and joined a very evangelical church. She seemed happy at first and I was glad for her. One day she complained to me that even though she was now a committed Christian she was still referred to as a Jewish convert. She was not sure she could continue in this church as she felt singled out. I'm afraid that I had no good answers for her. This was over 25 years ago and she has been through several churches. The last I heard she had moved back and renounced her conversion. My best guess is she will now be known in her local temple as a Christian convert. Native Americans have a term that I think applies, called counting coup.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:25:22 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 17, 2020 15:25:22 GMT -8
Interesting tale, but I'm a bit confused about the reference to counting coup. That basically involves striking an enemy hand-to-hand (to provide bragging rights for bravery). I don't see the connection.
Incidentally, there's a fun reference to the practice in S. P. Somtow's "Aquila", the initial story in his alternate history series The Aquiliad. Aqulia (an Indian chief) and some of his followers have joined the Romans in a battle with the Parthians. Three young braves count coup on the Parthian commander. The Roman enjoys their feat, though he would have been happier if they had thought to kill him while they had him at their mercy. (Incidentally, one of the later stories -- "Aquila Meets Bigfoot" -- involves a Roman expedition to the West that meets some sasquatii who seem to have some habits artraveler would appreciate, such as their fondness for annular loaves smeared with cream cheese and topped with smoked salmon.)
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Jan 17, 2020 18:15:06 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 17, 2020 18:15:06 GMT -8
I'm a bit confused about the reference to counting coup I think it should be obvious, these pastors only want the status of hanging an Atheist or Jewish scalp on the wall. Converts are forever damned with faint praise as the Atheist or Jewish convert
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 17, 2020 21:49:05 GMT -8
Any conversion is generally considered a catch. Where do you think they got the idea for Pokemon Go?
I don’t know what to say, really. I’ve been on the same end of that in my own way. One just tries to remember that religion is often problematic. But the idea of God — the fixed and eternal star of light and hope — is where it’s at. You can’t be driving the car and looking six feet ahead of you. As they taught us in driver’s ed, you have to look ahead quite a bit or else you’ll be swerving all over.
It wouldn't be religion unless you had a fair amount of smug people “counting coup” on converts and such. That’s a good way to put it. I wouldn’t want to convert an atheist just for the benefit of me. What kind of ass would that make me? The point would be for the benefit of them.
I just think atheism is so aesthetically unpleasant. I think it’s the moral equivalent of having stepped in something in the barnyard. People who are chronically angry, smug, and closed-minded aren’t generally going to be a pleasure to themselves or others. So first things first, tell them it’s not so stupid to believe in God.
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