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Post by timothylane on Feb 19, 2020 15:13:12 GMT -8
I suspected you would remember Gordon's death scene, but it certainly was impressive. It's interesting to note the similarity to Robert Neville's death scene in The Omega Man, which also involves being hit in the chest by a thrown spear. (In that case it was thrown by enemy leader Jonathan Mathias. I don't know if the Mahdi threw the spear in that scene, but I doubt it since he reportedly wanted Gordon taken alive.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 19, 2020 21:02:50 GMT -8
Grand Prix is 2 hours and 56 minutes long. 40 minutes could be easily cut out of this. I like the relationship between Eve Marie Saint and Yves Montand. And there is some soap-opera interest in the Scott Stoddard, Pat Stoddard, Pete Aron triangle. About Nino Barlini and his girlfriends, we could care less, although he is okay in passing and probably indicative of the playboy lifestyle on the grand prix circuit. But the movie — and especially the between-race soap opera stuff — needed to be tightened up. Most of these story elements flame out by the end. We could care less who wins the championship, any grand culmination having been muddled. The injured, long-suffering underdog receives no noble reward. The American, perhaps least deserving of the all, wins it. Amongst the wife-swapping hedonism on the road, a marriage is saved. But it hardly fixes how loose most of these people are. And the one noble character in this gets killed. So, much like Ford v Ferrari, the story itself is weak. But the filming of the racing segments did get better as the movie wore on. But the film is just too ambitious. They needed to tighten it up quite a bit. The Japanese angle is superficial, at best. That entire aspect could have been cut. There were some great moments such as the car launching into the harbor. From what I’ve read, they didn’t use a model but used a full-size car. But otherwise, I can see a lot of people getting bored with this film and I understand why. There is an underlying theme here, woefully underdeveloped, about these manic, almost sociopathic drivers chasing thrills and cheating death for basically not all that much money (back then). Of course, this is the way you’d expect it to be. Normal people aren’t going to be doing this. There’s a little bit of crazy there. And I think that’s where the character of James Garner falls so terribly short. He should be carrying that aspect and fleshing it out. But he’s most of the time rather aw-shucks milquetoast. Imagine Paul Newman in this role. It would have been so much better. But the tedium was often relieved by views of the beautiful-in-a-French-way, Françoise Hardy.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 19, 2020 21:38:09 GMT -8
There were some good scenes sprinkled about in this, particularly the one where Eva “Boom Boom” Marie Saint is not allowed to ride in the back of the ambulance with Jean-Paul Sartre. But his real wife does. Take that, superficial girl-toy wenches. And Eva “Boom Boom” Marie Saint earned her money in that last scene where she holds up her bloody hands to the crowed and yells, “Is that what you want?” That’s a great shot across the bow at the bloodthirsty press and public. I remember the smarmy and dick-headed brother of Princess Diana at her funeral bemoaning the press and blaming them for her death. What a coward. If the public wouldn’t buy the newspapers filled with this stuff, the press would not have been following her. Kudos to the honest filmmakers of Grand Prix for including a scene like this. If Mr. Kung weren’t already married, I think we would fight over this woman:
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Post by timothylane on Feb 19, 2020 21:45:39 GMT -8
We saw this as a family, and I remember my sister's reactions to those scenes at the end -- the wife of a failed marriage displacing the girlfriend he probably wanted to marry, and the bloody hands.
You're probably right about the movie being too long. I don't recall that much detail, but of course as a child of 14 I wasn't all that interested in the soap opera stuff. And I definitely would have preferred a different winner.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 19, 2020 22:15:52 GMT -8
A different ending would most definitely have been preferred.
I would have put Eva “Boom Boom” Marie Saint in as a substitute driver for Maverick who, for some reason, started to feel light in the head. (“Boom Boom” can do that to any man.)
With her delicate bone structure, it would be an easy fit into the race car seat. Four tires, a full tank of fuel, and soon her long, blond hair would be flowing out the back of her helmet, waving in the 200 mph slipstream like golden threads of Frenchy freedom.
But instead of heading toward the start/finish line, she would hang a left at the next intersection (these tracks usually run through a small town or village) and head on to Paris for a shopping spree. The valet parking attendant would surely take charge as Eva Marie Saint, credit card in hand, could take the Metro Saint-Paul to sort through the fashion delights of Paris. The end.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 7:52:00 GMT -8
Would you like door #1 or door #2?
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 8:10:22 GMT -8
The trivia section at IMDB for Grand Prix notes that James Garner was a very good driver and could hold his own in informal races with the professionals. Swedish actress, Harriet “Boom” Andersson, was originally cast in the mistress role for Jean-Paul Sartre. But James Garner wanted, and got, Eva Marie "Boom Boom" Saint instead. Harriet gets only one “Boom” in my book. And that may be generous. One word that didn’t creep into my reviews of any of these racing movies is “cruel.” But that’s the word that was missing. The trivia sections mentions: Some of the stark brutality comes through in the film. The trivia section also mentions a book, The Cruel Sport, by Robert Daley. One reviewer writes: We saw that cruelty at the end of the Daytona 500. One driver might be dead (thankfully he wasn’t), but the celebrations by the winner go on. The same thing occurred in Grand Prix. One can certainly have an appreciation that the sensibilities are different. These guys are used to moving up in the pack when something bad happens to someone else. That’s just part of racing. And that’s probably never going to change, especially with the more frivolous yutes taking over as drivers as they have in NASCAR. The Formula 1 season is coming up. I took a look and they now have about 22 races, an all-time high. That includes the one in China that has been officially postponed. There’s now a race in Vietnam, if you can believe it. But there is no longer a Formula 1 race in Germany. There must be a story behind that. The very engine of capitalism, modern Germany, has no race but the Communists in Hanoi do. Something is rotten in Denmark, although there are events in relatively nearby Belgium and The Netherlands.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 20, 2020 8:37:41 GMT -8
Being totally bedridden now, I'm in no position to use either door #1 or door #2. Even when I was still a functional person I'm not sure I could drive a racecar like that, and I also doubt the woman would have been interested in me. (And if she were, I'm sure Elizabeth would have been most displeased.) But at least I can imagine doing something with her. So I guess door #2.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 9:21:08 GMT -8
The one crash by Jean-Paul Sartra that took out a couple spectators might have been a revisit of the 1961 Italian Grand Prix where driver Wolfgang von Trips tangled with Jim Clark on the second lap. Wolfgang von Trips and 15 spectators were killed. This was on the Monza course shown in the movie and it happened on the section just before the banked oval section. More on that race here. Apparently these banked sections are no longer in use.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 10:15:46 GMT -8
Still, either door is nice to look at. I had a toy called a “Dino Charger” when I was young. It ran on batteries (or possibly a gas engine…I forget) and it had a tether so that it could run around in circles with you at the center sort of holding it like a kite. I thought of this when I read that the Ferraris at one point moved to a “dino” engine. And the car I had was red and certainly a Ferrari. It looked like this model. It was one of my prized possessions when I was probably anywhere from 6 years old to 8. I didn’t have much success actually getting it to work right. But the idea of it was thrilling. As is Françoise "Boom Boom" Hardy.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 20, 2020 10:32:38 GMT -8
I don't recall any racers, but I did have some of those matchbook vehicles and such like. I remember there were a few Saladin armored cars, which an Army brat naturally would recall. There were also lorries and some older vehicles (I remember there was a Daimler).
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 20, 2020 12:20:23 GMT -8
As you can imagine, this was a very well known crash. As I recall, Von Trips was driving a Mercedes auto and after that accident, Mercedes pulled out of racing for several decades.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 12:23:12 GMT -8
I'm sure the squirrels and rabbits appreciate that old car as much as you do.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 20, 2020 14:23:28 GMT -8
According to the article Brad linked to, he was driving for Ferrari. (I didn't follow auto racing, so I have no memory of even being aware of such races. I've never been a car person, which is just as well, given how many cars I've had that looked more like that clunker than like a racer.)
Well, you won't hear of me getting into fights at my nursing home, though my roommate (not by my choice) has been known to fight the aides trying to change him. (He also can't raise the head of his bed because he recently burned out its motor -- after it had been replaced a few months ago when he burned the old one out. He really needs something to do besides raising and lowering the head of his bed.)
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Post by timothylane on Feb 20, 2020 16:49:20 GMT -8
That diagram looks somewhat like what I was afraid of from seeing the video of the Daytona 500 crash Monday.
Where in heck was the woman in that photo? Inside the car? (I can't see for sure if there's anyone there.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 20, 2020 16:57:50 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 21, 2020 8:58:48 GMT -8
Let me say a bit more about what I thought was an excellent summary-view documentary of Formula 1 racing: 1I found this to be a balanced documentary. It highlighted the dangers (and the reckless attitudes toward those dangers) as well as what drives the racers despite the obvious dangers. That is, this isn’t a hatchet-job by some effete journalist. Much of it is told from the inside by racers and those closely aligned with it. One fellow makes a great point near the end. I’ll paraphrase: “If you offered these guys a choice between a car that was perfectly safe, and one that was very dangerous but two seconds per lap faster, all drivers would choose the dangerous car. Thus any kind of safety reforms must come from race organizers.” There were drivers such as Jackie Stewart, Emerson Fittipaldi, and Niki Lauda who were staunch advocates for safety reform. But at the end of the day (despite pleas from driver union head), the pull of competition was too great. In one hilarious scene, the drivers had all agreed to boycott a certain track because it was deemed unsafe. But I think it was the true asshole Jacky Ickx who started his car in the pits. Hearing the roar of just this one engine broke the will of the other drivers and they all joined the starting grid. I don’t know if tragedy ensued in that particular race or not. There were several milestones on the way to pulling back from being an outright blood sport, which Formula 1 surely was. One could say that three specific events were socially influential in effecting change: driver Jim Clark’s death (1968), Niki Lauda (driver, Ferrari) quitting a race during a pouring rain which he thought too dangerous to run, and finally the death of the wildly popular Ayrton Senna in 1994. The number of deaths has steeply declined since then. There was a gap from Senna’s death to the death of John Dawson-Damer in 2000. Then there was a thankful gap from the death of Fritz Giatz in 2002 to the death of Denis Welch in 2014. There have unfortunately been a couple deaths since then. And this list of Formula 1 deaths. While searching for programs on Formula 1 on my Roku, I ran into a program called Engineering Connection on a free channel called Real Truth. You can search for the channel and add it. The Real Truth channel contains season 3 of Engineering Connections which includes a program on the technological advances made to Formula 1 cars. I found it fascinating from start to finish. Every principle mentioned is tangibly demonstrated in one way or another. Richard Hammond is the humorous, self-effacing presenter. But this is not dumbed-down. He does a great job getting behind the scenes and showing cool stuff. He demonstrates by practical example how the Formula 1 engines (which are small by family-car standards) can produce so much power. The cylinders fit very tightly in their bores. He demonstrates what this means with a homemade air cannon. I’ve watched another show on a liquid natural gas super-tanker. This was truly an excellent behind-the-scenes look at how all that works. I knew that stainless steel didn't rust (at least easily), but I never new it was strong even at cryogenic temperatures. The Real Truth channel also offered a program on the HMS Hood and how it was sunk. A crew borrows Paul Allen’s yuge yacht (which doubles as a research ship) and goes to the Denmark Straight off Greenland to take a second look with an ROV. These fellows had found the ship in an earlier expedition but have kept the coordinates secret. You get some interesting views of the wreckage. I can’t say I was astonished at the findings. This was obviously a lucky magazine hit by the Bismarck and supposedly confirmed in the wreckage by ROV cameras, although I found the interpretation of the wreckage to go by awfully fast and thus wasn’t particularly convincing. The documentary does a slip-shot fast-forward of its explanation of how the shot was lucky and hit the magazines. It just said that it went through “a thin part of the deck” but shows no graphics in that regard or offers any context. Still, the documentary is interesting in some aspect, if only to see this amazing boat once owned by Allen, the Octopus.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 21, 2020 10:26:15 GMT -8
That list was interesting. I didn't know there was a US Grand Prix. I think there was a reference to it in the MAD parody (Grim Prix), but I thought that was a joke. Also interesting was how many deaths were not in the races themselves, but in tests, practicing, or qualifying runs -- though from Senna on, all of them have been in actual races.
That was one humongous yacht. I wonder how the Octopus would compare with the Disco Volante from Thunderball (both book and movie). John Ringo also had a number of large yachts, perhaps comparable to that, in his series about a zombie outbreak (due to a disease from, um, China) -- he likes using such tropes as a basis for a series, as he previously did with his Posleen series about Earth's struggle against an invasion of cannibalistic aliens. (Cannibalistic in that they'll eat anything. "How do two Posleen greet each other? With salt and pepper.")
It was undoubtedly a lucky hit on Hood, but one should also note that 3 British battlecruisers blew up at Jutland and at least one more almost did. (It was after that one that Admiral Beatty made the famous comment, "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today.")
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 21, 2020 12:24:15 GMT -8
I think I would have been more thrilled at just a tour of the yacht. It looks amazingly impressive. But what we find out about the Bismarck is relatively nil. I’d put this documentary, although interesting in places, as one of those “puff” or filler documentaries.
But the one on the technology of the modern Formula 1 cars was very interesting. In concentrated on these aspects:
1) The ability of a smaller engine to produce more power. This was shown via his air cannon. Very entertaining in a Mythbusters sort of way.
2) The strength of carbon fiber. This was demonstrated amazingly in a torque machine. Presenter Richard Hammond holds in one hand a driveshaft made from metal. It is heavy and it looks strong. In his other hand is light and seemingly flimsy driveshaft made of carbon fiber.
He starts with the metal one and it fails after 1500 units (Newtons?) of twisting force. He then sticks the carbon fiber one in there and it doesn’t fail until about 6500. That is really an amazing demonstration. How can something that is so much lighter be stronger?
3) Another segment (not quite as interesting) was on the use of forged magnesium for the wheels/hubs. The gist of it is that they are very light and very strong (and very expensive). The slight change of igniting the rims (which has happened) is said to be more than worth it.
4) They show the new Kevlar/rubber enclosure for the gas tanks. He give a couple good demonstrations. One is how a solid tank is more subject to breaking open than a flexible bag type of one. The other demonstration involves a flaming arrow and a bag full of gas. Needless to say, the Kevlar/rubber gas tank stopped the arrow. But it was fun to see all the same.
5) It was also noted that carbon fiber is used in the body of the car. Basically the structure is so strong it needs no other framework. They didn’t get into that aspect in much detail.
All of these things, and more (such as changes to the tracks themselves which this didn’t get into), are extensive and expensive. But it has made Formula 1 crashes nearly as routine and safe as NASCAR crashes.
Again, I hate to be too picky, but it was a fairly slipshod documentary regarding the details. It did mention that both Naval inquiries (I think there were two) came to no firm conclusions. There just wasn’t much information to them other than “It blew up in one big explosion and then very promptly sunk.”
What this documentary did apparently establish was that the Hood was in the midst of a proper turn according to standard strategy wherein you would move full speed toward the target (minimizing exposure) and then abruptly turn broadside and bring all guns to bear. They could see the position of the rudder. It therefore seems likely that the Hood was hit while making its turn. But eyewitness accounts from the Prince of Wales apparently aren't helpful in determining much or confirming much, so who knows?
One of the highlights of the documentary is when they showed a newly discovered color movie taken of the Hood. Although you hardly need color to describe its big, imposing slab-gray paint job, it’s still a remarkable sight all the same.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 21, 2020 15:00:21 GMT -8
Yes, I think three was the number. They were somehow (I think) on the outside of the hull. They weren’t (again) specific. Maybe they were doing repairs or manning an odd station. But short of the Nazis having developed a Super Duper Bomb, I think it was obvious to all that they had gotten a lucky shot into one of the magazines. This video may (may…it was all very slipshod, in my opinion) have shown which one. But I wasn’t convinced and there was no one else there giving any kind of alternative analysis.
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