Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 29, 2020 20:13:29 GMT -8
Sleuth can be hard to find. With help of a service that rhymes with “abhorrent,” I was able to dig up a copy. Too long (138 minutes) and too little imagination used in this one. You basically get the same shtick the entire movie long. There’s room in the movie universe for a clever movie like this. This just wasn’t the one. There are plot twists, so I won’t give that away. But I think if I did, it would relieve you from high expectations. Michael Caine plays Milo Tindle, a hairdresser, who is having an affair with the wife of the rich Andrew Wyke (Laurence Olivier). Long story short, Wyke invites Tindle to his mansion under false pretenses. Tindle is had. Then Tindle gets revenge. Then the tennis ball is hit back across the net again and Wyke gets had. As other reviewers noted, “I really wanted to like this movie.” Me too. The idea is okay. But the writing is amateurish. The performances are wasted. Okay, a real spoiler here. When Tindle (who we think is dead) comes back disguised as a police detective, there are all kinds of opportunities for revenge on the mystery-writer, Wyke, who has gained famed and riches because of a popular fictional detective he created. It’s just sitting there, an interesting premise, waiting for some sharp writing that never comes. I think it forces Oliver to be overwrought and over-act to make up the deficit. Caine is Caine and does a fine job. But he can’t rise above the material either.
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Post by timothylane on Feb 29, 2020 20:38:58 GMT -8
I liked Sleuth better than you did. Incidentally, there are a lot of similarities in terms of basic plot between Sleuth and two other movies, Games and Deathtrap. Caine is also in the latter, but plays the Olivier role of the writer, with Christopher Reeve in the Caine role and Dyan Cannon as the wife. It's also a play and movie that are heavily self-referential, which may explain why there's a character referred to named Maury Escher. Ira Levin (who wrote the play) knew his bizarre art. The wife also plays a major role in Games, and was played by Katharine Ross with James Caan as her husband.
An interesting aspect of Sleuth is that the cast list includes several fictitious performers in order to keep the audience from realizing in advance that it's a 2-actor movie. All but one of their roles is also non-existent. Another is the way they make use of the writer's prejudice against "Inspector Plodder", the typical dullard he sees as the police norm. (Tindle notes that Doppler is a near anagram of Plodder, one reason he picked the name.) According to wikipedia, Wyke was more or less based on John Dickson Carr.
One can note that all 3 movies revolve around failing marriages, although this isn't discovered in Games until near the end. Indeed, all 3 at times involve disposing of a wife one way or another.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 1, 2020 8:10:15 GMT -8
Yes, Deathtrap is very similar. And, if memory serves, much better. The dialogue in Sleuth just quickly becomes stale and tiresome. It’s just the same things being restated throughout the movie. It was clever for a while when Caine comes back disguised as a police detective. But I don’t think the dialogue is crisp or witty. Is The Game with Michael Douglas the other movie you were referring to? I don’t think I’ve seen that one. There’s a 2007 version of Sleuth with Michael Caine and Jude Law. I wonder if that version comes off better. One reviewer calls it “a vulgar knockoff.” I think one reviewer nails one of my objections: Olivier’s character as part of a larger cast might work. But he’s a bore given so much screen time. I also liked this comment: This does feel like an ego-burst from both actors involved instead of that energy being put into an engaging story. It seems like it wanted to have a ticker at the bottom of the screen that read “Watch us act!”
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Post by timothylane on Mar 1, 2020 9:50:44 GMT -8
The play Deathtrap actually has a reference to Sleuth, as one of the notable thriller plays, including Agatha Christie's Witness for the Prosecution. (Levin once introduced a collection of Christie plays by nothing that most writers only have one notable such play -- as he did -- but Christie had 3. The other 2 were Ten Little Indians (based on the book And Then There None, originally titled Ten Little Niggers in Britain) and The Mousetrap.) Also mentioned were Angel Street (which I've never heard of otherwise, such is fame) and Dial M for Murder (which also gets referenced again later), as well as Bruhl's own The Murder Game (which of course isn't a real play).
The movie version fleshed things out a good bit (the initial sequence with yet another Sidney Bruhl failure is an addition) and also changed the ending considerably.
Games is a 1967 movie starring James Caan, Katharine Ross, and Simone Signoret.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 2, 2020 8:29:21 GMT -8
Someone mentioned that both Sleuth and Deathtrap owe something to Diabolique, a 1955 French film. Apparently there's a forgettable 1996 remake with Sharon Stone. I wonder If I can find that French version. I wouldn't mind giving it a try
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By chance, Amazon Prime has it. I'll give it a watch and report back.
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Post by timothylane on Mar 2, 2020 9:22:30 GMT -8
Interesting. I can see some similarities also to Games -- which also starts Simone Signoret. Both involve someone being driven crazy by sightings of someone supposedly dead.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 2, 2020 12:50:37 GMT -8
Sometimes all you need to fix something is a good killing. Michel Delassalle (Paul Meurisse) is just begging for the cure. He’s messing around with a mistress right in front of his fragile wife (whom he apparently rapes now and then). And the mistress was last seen wearing dark glasses because of a black eye recently received. She said she walked into a wall.
Despite all this, the two women (they all work together in a boy’s school) are friends with each other. I would appear that one of them is bringing up the subject of poisoning this French Harvey Weinstein although the audience is not privy to whatever conversation they had over a suspicious-looking dark bottle.
Whatever they will do, it seems they will be doing it during the upcoming school holiday whereby alibis can be established.
The wife believes in hell and is still reticent about going through with it. But I think she could put this guy down like a dog and not feel any more remorse than that she hadn’t done it sooner. We’ll see.
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Post by timothylane on Mar 2, 2020 13:09:07 GMT -8
Oh, my, I just checked the plot summary for Diabolique, and Games could almost be the English language equivalent of it. Signoret even has the same role in both, except she's merely the husband's murder partner (which is the murderer and which is the accomplice is an interesting question) in the latter. In both cases the husband is going for the wife's money. There are definitely differences in plot details, and in Games Signoret's character gets away with everything. But both involve a husband and another woman driving his wife crazy over the reappearance of someone who supposedly has been murdered.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 2, 2020 13:27:42 GMT -8
This is girl-power, the deadly version.That might be the movie poster headline if remade today. But you can't blame the girls in this case. He really does need a diet of poison. Part of the girls' plan is to head off to Noirt, France. Never heard of the place and I'm sure I'm mispronouncing it in my head. (Be sure to watch the series, The Wiper's Times. The title is based on the dismissive — and I can't blame them — pronunciation of Ypres by the British soldiers.) They've called home to establish that they are in Noirt (rhymes with bort). The wifey is saying over the phone to the soon-to-be-dead husband that she wants a divorce. Are they planning on trying to make it look like it was suicide, the distraught husband losing his wife? But because he actually has made it widely known that he prefers the mistress and wishes the wife would die, I don't think that's actually the angle they will be playing.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 3, 2020 8:35:33 GMT -8
I’m just over halfway in Diabolique. I’m not overwhelmed by the quality of this movie. For 1955, it may have been cutting edge but it looks more than a little dated now. Thelma and Louise this is not. The girls very clearly are leaving a trail of clues behind them. They have in no way thought this crime through. And that might sound endearing in a way, but I get the definite feeling that French women in the audience of the time would have been jeering these two women for their obvious stupidity. And one of them is being swallowed by regret after-the-fact. (In Noirt, they drugged him and then drowned him in the bathtub. They carried him back in a wicker basket at night to the school.) You might interpret the wife’s guilty feelings and doubt as indicative of a moral conscience. But the character comes across not as moral but as insipid and weak. If you’re going to do a job, do it right. Stop the blubbering. It just gets utterly ridiculous. They eventually dump the body in the unused (and overrun with muck) swimming pool at the school. But the wife can’t keep her eyes off the pool, especially because it is in view of her classroom. Will the body suddenly appear? It sounds suspenseful. But the way it plays out is pretty dumb. But there is a nice twist. Having all but given herself up by giving every obvious tell to those around her that something is amiss, the weak, insipid husband-murderer orders the groundskeeper to drain the pool. She just wants to get this over with. The police will come in. They’ll rule it an accidental death. Or at least, in her weak and overwrought mind, it will be over one way or another. But when the pool is finally drained, there is no body. To top if off, soon after, the dead man’s suit is delivered by the dry-cleaners to the school. They go to the dry-cleaners to try to find out who dropped the clothes off. The get not only a description of the man (but no name) but the key to a hotel room that the man somehow left behind. The wife (ex-wife) goes to the hotel room and no one is there. She meets a custodian of the hotel who tells her the man is rarely there and rarely seen. The plot thickens, I guess. My motivation now is just to get this film over. I’m far enough into it that I want to see where they are going with it. But this is not an exposition of great French acting or movie-making, at least yet. It feels more like an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents that runs on for too long.
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Post by timothylane on Mar 3, 2020 9:24:56 GMT -8
I've read the plot synopses on both wikipedia and IMDB, so I'll just say you still have some nice plot twists to encounter yet. Wikipedia in particular noted that many horror writers (including Robert Bloch) admire the movie, and significant elements were used in both Games (they even note Signoret playing extremely similar roles in both) and Deathtrap as well as Hush, Hush, Sweet Charlotte.
Of course, that says nothing about such matters as performances. Even if I saw it, I would be no great judge of the acting. That may be why I enjoy Sleuth and you don't. Sometimes a refined palate isn't such a good thing (something that came up in a MAD cartoon once).
And, just as an aside, the town is Niort, not Noirt. The wikipedia map shows it, as far as I can tell, in the vicinity of La Rochelle, whereas St. Cloud (where the school is located) is a southern suburb of Paris. On a good highway, that might be a couple of hours driving.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 3, 2020 12:43:21 GMT -8
I would have loved to watch Diabolique with you, Timothy. Something this amateurish is best when shared. Why someone wanted to stretch this out to 117 minutes is anyone’s guess. Tightened up, it would have been much the better for it. Most of the negative reviews I read said “Despite the good acting.” You may be a good judge of acting or not. But I can see Kim Novak or even Jamie Lee Curtis in the role of the terrorized wifey, Christina Delassalle. But the performance of Véra Clouzot (and the plot of this movie) would have been considered amateurish for a high school play. Véra Clouseau, maybe. Anyway, the way this all works out is that it was the husband and mistress who were trying to kill the wife via inducing a fatal heart attack. They were faking his death. Yawn. What an absolutely stupid device. And, of course, in the movie it works right on time. He delivers the scare and she dutifully keels over on queue of a heart attack. Like I said, amateurish even for a high school play. Simon Signoret, who plays the mistress, Nicole Horner, sometimes has shades of a good femme fatale. But the more you get into the movie (which starts reasonably well), the more you see her complete lack of range as an actress. The child actors in this (who had only bit parts) were more convincing as real people. So there’s nothing you can do with a movie such as this (if you have reasonably good taste) but to invite some like-minded friends over to laugh and throw tomatoes at this turkey which so many others (going by the reviews) hold in high regard. One reviewer sounds just to the “right” of me regarding his rant about this steaming pile of crap: Simone Signoret is pretty in perhaps a uniquely French way:
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 3, 2020 12:53:46 GMT -8
Here's a weird postscript from Wiki about Véra Clouzot
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Post by timothylane on Mar 3, 2020 13:37:32 GMT -8
Clouzot was the wife of the director. I assume you're thinking of Kim Novak from Vertigo and Jamie Lee Curtis from (especially) Halloween.
Note that there was a bit of a twist at the end of Diabolique, hinting that Christine either wasn't killed after all -- or has become a revenant, no doubt seeking revenge.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 3, 2020 13:59:56 GMT -8
Absotively. It’s the burden of good (or at least convincing) actresses such as that to be the object of “What if?” imaginings. Right now I’m watching Raw Deal which stars Dennis O’Keefe as Joe Sullivan. Sullivan has just escaped from prison with the help of his wife. The getaway car breaks down and Joe is forced to take refuge with his hot-chick lawyer, Ann Martin (Marsha Hunt), who also has the hots for Joe. The movie basically starts off with Martin visiting Joe in prison, the typical scene speaking across a pane of glass. And you can hear the Movie Gods crying out during this scene, “Where is my Humphrey Bogart?” This role was for him but he couldn’t be everywhere at once. I see no information that he was offered the role. But it was a good fit for him. And, if memory serves (I’m sure I’ve seen this before), it’s a pretty decent movie, even with O’Keefe.
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