Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 14:45:20 GMT -8
I do intent to buy a gun, although I’m not sure which. I thought I’d start a topic here.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jun 4, 2020 14:58:08 GMT -8
I think an important place to start is determining how much experience you have with guns and how much time you would be willing to put into getting comfortable with one.
A pistol is definitely much more difficult to use effectively than a shotgun. A rifle is more difficult than a shotgun. Believe it or not, hitting anything beyond 15-20 feet with a pistol is not a given, especially if you are using a pistol with a short barrel. And with aging eyes, long-distance shots become more difficult.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 15:14:10 GMT -8
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 15:17:59 GMT -8
I’d say I have a natural affinity for shooting guns. I’ve handled them since I was a kid…mostly BB guns and pellet guns. But I’ve been out shooting with Pat & Friends a couple times and they had quite an arsenal. I got to try a variety of things.
I’m most comfortable with a rifle. Most handguns are not lefty-friendly although I suppose they make left-handed guns. And if I was in a pinch, I know I can hip-shoot ducks on the wing if I had to with a rifle. It’s a natural feel for me. I never felt comfortable with a handgun.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jun 4, 2020 15:38:23 GMT -8
This is the .22 I got for Christmas around 1965. It is a very nice rifle. Easy to use and fun to shoot. I got to be a pretty good shot with it some 50 years ago. The only question I would have is if you want to use it as a self-defense weapon, you will need to keep it loaded. This is because one loads it through the lower tube in front of the trigger. I like the fact that there is no clip sticking out of the stock.
As to the lethality of a .22, I can tell you it will do the job. I knew a guy of questionable character, ok there was actually no question, he was a thug. While sitting at an outside restaurant in south Thailand, a motorcyclist pulled up and shot him five times with a .22 pistol. The thug would have died except for some very quick action on the part of those around him and the fact that many of his comrades-in-arms gave a lot of blood.
The guy took well over a year to get back to normal. As I recall, part of the problem was the difficulty in finding the small bullets in him on the operating table.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 15:49:41 GMT -8
That Marlin looks like a nice rifle. The Ruger uses a “Patented detachable 10-round rotary magazine”. One of the staff of one of these sites linked to some other clips: Ruger Factory Rimfire Magazines. This includes a 25 capacity clips for $34.99. That would seem to be the way to go. There are also Ruger BX-25 25-Round 22 LR Magazine - Two Pack for $49.99. This looks like a more traditional clip. Is the first style better because it wouldn't hang out so far? The reality is that I’m not likely to hit much with a handgun. With a more powerful rifle, I certainly could. But the .22 is light, reliable, inexpensive, and can shoot fairly rapidly. Apparently (assuming the assailant isn’t wearing body armor or a particularly thick coat), two shots into anyone is going to stop them or cause them to retreat. I would feel a lot more comfortable with this as a starter weapon. The question is, would I need the “takedown” model that I can put into a backpack? What do you think?
Yikes, what a horror story. But it does sound as if a .22 could do the job in most circumstances that I would face (defending the building from looters). If you listened to Prager today, he had a guest on who had familiarity with Antifa. They specifically do not want alpha males in their ranks. So shooting snowflakes is, by definition, going to require less stopping power.
Also, obviously we’d be talking about long-rifle cartridges. And one poster said to get this type at minimum:
Weight = 40 grain minimum Velocity = 1,200 FPS minimum Type = SOLID POINT ONLY
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 16:24:50 GMT -8
Bill Burr on .22 Is Best For Home Defense
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 4, 2020 16:38:17 GMT -8
The brick sounds good. Sounds like that is high quality ammo.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 5, 2020 8:54:16 GMT -8
Yes, one of the selling points I’ve read about that is that the copper coating is good for the gun. I’ll let you know when I pull the trigger on buying a gun. The only thing holding me back is that I really want to shoot the damn thing and I have to drive a ways to do that at the nearest range. Although a rifle is a security measure just like having a lock on the door, I’d still rather do more with it then have it sit in a closet gathering dust. I like shooting at stuff. And I’d rather shoot it without the restrictions of a gun range. They probably wouldn't appreciate hearing, "Die Antifa scum. Die" while I shoot.
I’ll find out from my older brother if he has a place where he is that I could safely shoot.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 5, 2020 10:58:16 GMT -8
I had a great conversation with my gun connection in Portland. He used to be a dealer and he regularly hunts and shoots. He didn’t laugh at the idea of a .22 and in fact encouraged it, although as with Mr. Shu (sort of like “shoot’ in this context), he likes the idea of a short-barrel pump action shotgun. He prefers the Remington 870 Express but also likes the Mossberg 500 Tactical. As for the .22, he talked me into considering the Ruger 40107 Mark IV 22/45. At about $340.00 (from what I can find from a list of local prices), it’s a bit more than the Ruger 10/22 Carbine at $229.99. But the pistol has the obvious advantage of being backpackable — as would be the takedown version of the rifle. But at 34.4 oz. for the pistol verses 4.5 lbs. for the rifle, the pistol has clear advantages as an immediate-defense weapon for out and about. Another aspect that is interesting (whether talking about the rifle or the pistol), my friend told me about the CB Cap .22 rounds you can get which are relatively quiet — quiet enough probably for an indoor shooting range. The article says it is no louder than a pellet gun. My friend says he has an airsoft gun that is louder. So we’re obviously not talking about a big bang. I could live with feeding it bullets one at a time for indoor practice.
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Post by timothylane on Jun 5, 2020 11:24:03 GMT -8
Ah, shooting pigeons with a pistol. More useful than poisoning them in the park, if nothing else because you can eat what's left. That's what H. Beam Piper was doing for food near the end of his life ("I'm sorry to go away without cleaning up any of this mess, but if I could have cleaned up any of this mess I wouldn't be going away") as it seemed his writing career had cratered. (Actually, his agent had died and had no records, relying on what seems to have been a good memory until then. John W. Campbell was trying to locate him but didn't know where he was.)
Piper certainly had no lack of guns (I'm sure that's how he committed suicide). He had a nice collection, which at least partly inspired his rare and obscure mystery, Murder in the Gun Room.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 13, 2020 11:29:03 GMT -8
Yesterday I bought a used Henry Classic Lever Action .22 rifle (Model H001) for $200.00 from a friend. He had heard I was looking for a .22 rifle and mentioned one he had that he didn’t need anymore. It’s from 2012 and has a few scratches on it, but it’s otherwise in excellent condition. Only shot it with his grandma on Sundays. And I don’t think these rifles have changed all the much through years. He even threw in a couple boxes of ammo. On the way back home from picking it up, I stopped by my brother’s house which is right on the way home. We set up some targets and blasted away. I didn’t get a chance to dial in the sights but it was fairly good already. And with a little practice I started honing in on the target (a tin can at about 75 yards). The misses were good enough that my brother declared my fit and ready to take on Antifa. I was shooting long rifle rounds. The gun will hold 15. You manually insert them in a tube next to the barrel. This is by no means as convenient or fast as changing clips on a semi-automatic. But it worked well. It didn’t jam while my brother’s .22 (which he got out of the archives) did quickly jam. The lever action is very smooth and reliable. This will have the added benefit when shooting the subsonic bullets which typically don't work the mechnism in a semi-automatic. You crank each shot in a Henry so the ammunition type makes no difference (other than that the rifle will hold more of the shorter rounds). I bought a small box of CCI Quiet-22 22 LR and a couple boxes of CCI CB 22 Long. I’ll compare them for quietness and accuracy and set up some kind of indoor shooting range. A case I’m looking at is the VISM by NcStar. It’s 42” so should be a good size for this 36-1/2” rifle. I’d rather have something like this than carry it around in a cardboard box. Let me know what you think. I also need to get some gun oil. Someone (the video below) mentioned this Hoppe’s No. Lubricating Oil. Let me know what you recommend. As for how to clean it and what I should use, I’m really not sure. Henry sells the Henry Otis Rimfire Cleaning System for $43.99. And this online video gives instructions for some minor disassembly so that you can clean the barrel and some of the internal parts. It would appear he’s using the Wheeler Compact Tactical Rifle Cleaning Kit for .22 and .30 Caliber Long Guns for $40.98. Offhand, this looks like a better kit. What do you think? He’s also using Hoppe’s No. 9 Gun Bore Cleaner. That guy probably puts on the oil a little thick. Someone in the comments sections writes, “Oil attracts dirt. For the magazine tube, a dry lube or wax then excess wiped off will not attract as much grit." Some of the commenters think the rod is a little hard on the barrel and prefer the bore snake. Anyway, let me know what you think.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jun 13, 2020 11:40:07 GMT -8
I like Henry's a lot. They are beautiful rifles and supposed to be made in the USA.
If you can hit a tin can at 75 yards, you are doing fine. These days, I find it hard (impossible) to focus on the back sight, front sight and target at the same time.
I would be interested to hear about your experience with these rounds.
Unless you have a gun cabinet, I believe it is always better to store a gun in a case, than leave it standing in the open air.
Here are some gun cleaning kits. I bought mine maybe 15 years ago. It looks like the one in the wooden box in the top picture.
This is the gun oil which the gun shop recommended to me. I still have some.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 13, 2020 11:48:18 GMT -8
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 13, 2020 11:51:43 GMT -8
Oh, believe you me. Shooting with these sights is somewhat like trying to walk and chew gum at the same time. You need two brains: one for sighting and then one for pulling the trigger. When I go to pull the trigger, you can tell you’re taking some attention away from the concentration and muscles it takes for the sighting. So practice practice practice.
I’ll let you know about the subsonic bullets. They should arrive in about a week. If I can find them on-the-shelf local, I’ll get some.
And, yes, the Henry is made in America.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jun 13, 2020 11:59:48 GMT -8
If I ever buy a Henry, it will be this one. It is a beauty!
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Post by timothylane on Jun 13, 2020 12:05:04 GMT -8
During the War of the Rebellion, Henry developed a rifle with a 16-round magazine, and I think a few scattered units had them. The Spencer, with its 7-round magazine, was more readily available and began appearing in 1863 (e.g., Wilder's Lightning Brigade, which played a crucial role in the Tullahoma and Chickamauga campaign). Compared to a standard muzzle-loading rifled musket like the Springfield and Enfield, it had about 5 times the rate of fire. The Henry was even better, and Wilder would have gotten it if enough had been available to equip his brigade. (Wilder, a businessman, bought the guns himself and the soldiers paid him back -- they loved the rate of fire, and the fact that they didn't have to shoot standing up -- out of their salaries.)
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 13, 2020 12:14:31 GMT -8
Yes, I love that Original Henry. This Wiki Article has some notes about the cartridge, including that its use in the Winchester 1973 made it. “The gun that won the West.” It was the first metallic centerfire cartridge they made. You could bring down Antifa two at a time with that bullet. The price on the H011 Model is $2514.00. Their gun is “the rifle you could load on Sunday and shoot all week long” which is included in a little history they give at the Henry site. And apparently you’d be getting a very authentic gun.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jun 13, 2020 19:56:48 GMT -8
And the nice thing about the Henry rifle is that it’s a solid chuck of metal. Even when empty it’s a formidable weapon just as a club. That M-Pro & Gun Oil looks like pretty good stuff, Mr. Kung. I’ll consider it. It certainly has good reviews on Amazon.I’ll probably just go with the Real Avid Bore Boss snake for cleaning and keep it simple rather than get a whole cleaning kit.
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Post by timothylane on Jun 13, 2020 20:01:15 GMT -8
Despite descriptions, medical personnel reported that bayonet wounds were extremely rare. Clubbed muskets were more common in hand-to-hand combat. Cavalry still made some use of sabers (and lances elsewhere, as late as Elandslaagte in 1899), and Wilder used long-handled hatchets.
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