Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 13, 2024 10:39:54 GMT -8
There's an interesting aspect to this book, as least so far. I'm about 60% into "4:50 from Paddington." And I wouldn't say this about the Poirot book that I had previously read. But Christie plots out this mystery in a way that may be suitably obscure but never convoluted.
I think most mystery writers think they have to make the plot convoluted, thick, dense, and just overall as if they'd put the various plot pieces into a blender and spit them out on a word processor.
Sure, there are things you don't know about the plot in Paddington. But she isn't heaping a convoluted and half-told mystery upon a half-told mystery to the point that your eyes glaze over and you end up not caring who-done-it because, as a reader, you feel cheated and manipulated.
It's interesting how the element of the "tontine" is introduced.
Then she tells Lucy "Oh, it wasn't in the crossword. It was in my head." In the TV series they diverge from this and instead have Marple visit the family lawyer to ask about the will. He can't, of course, tell her anything officially. But then he uses the device of asking her for help with a crossword puzzle. He gives clues for the word he is looking for which is eventually supplied by Marple. "Tontine." And so she has her answer. I like the way they did this in the series. Of course, this is all part of creatively translating a book to a movie. You are forced to take a few liberties here or there just to make it all work and to make it interesting in a different medium.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 13, 2024 10:55:54 GMT -8
Yes, you're right about that. There is simply too much good stuff (now) on free channels to pay for anything, although I do have Amazon Prime for business purposes. But Tubi TV and the Roku Channel (among others) have all kinds of good stuff for free, although the commercials can get a little thick on some of these channels. FreeVee also has a lot of good stuff.
Currently they have the Hickson version of Marple on BritBox...where it has been for some time. They have various other good series such as Cadfael, Inspector Morse, Vera (which I know you like), Poirot, Maigret (Rowan Atkinson), as well as a ton of borderline mystery series, such as The Doctor Blake Mysteries (early season are acceptable), Hetty Wainthropp, Father Brown (Kenneth More), The Inspector Lynley Mysteries, Shetland, and New Tricks. And lots and lots of what I consider unwatchable mediocrity. It's currently $8.99 a month. I've subscribed to it before and blew through what I wanted to watch in about six months or so.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 13, 2024 16:49:10 GMT -8
I am of two minds about this. One, I think a lot of authors have great difficulty coming up with logical and believable plots. As such, they cover up this failing with convoluted, thick and dense writing. Two, publishers want books to be longer so they can charge more for them. A 350 page passable book is preferable to a 150 page masterpiece.
The first time I heard that word was in the 1990s while living in Singapore. Apparently, such things were not unpopular with the Chinese. Given the Chinese love of gambling, I can understand why. The people who told me about a Tontine, thought it was a Chinese thing. I later found out that these originated in Europe, France or Italy I think.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 13, 2024 18:04:23 GMT -8
I think I named the effect. You named the cause. I finished "4:50 to Paddington" this afternoon. I actually forgot who the villain was. I thought it was Emma for a while. But then I remembered via Miss Marple's insistence that Mrs. McGillicuddy return to England, although she does not tell her why. But then I remembered what she was up to. In this one, I would say we really don't have much of an idea for how Miss Marple figured it out. We are very much short-changed by Christie in this regard, so the ending seems rushed and a bit tacked-on. And although I think it makes perfect sense in the TV episode, in the book it seems to make little sense why Lucy would stay on with the Crackenthorpes after the body is found. That part doesn't make sense and Christie's rationale for it is weak. In the TV series, Lucy eventually falls for the son-in-law, Bryan Eastley (the ex WWII flyer). In the book, it's left up in the air whether she goes with Bryan or Cedric. And the police action in this is rather lame. They have Bacon as the local detective and he adds zero to either the plot or the atmosphere. And certainly Detective Inspector Craddock from Scotland Yard is no match (in terms of charisma) for Slack. Craddock is also more or less a non-entity in this. He spends time questioning people but there isn't much interest in this. But, overall, it's an interesting story. Lucy certainly carries the book and even Miss Marple, at best, is somewhat of a side character in this one. But I did enjoy the read.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 13, 2024 19:03:01 GMT -8
The perfect team.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 14, 2024 6:41:07 GMT -8
Last night I started "Murder at the Vicarage." I'm to the point soon after the murder happened and they've arrested the artist who has confessed to it. One yuge divergence from the Hickson episode is the vicar's wife. She's played as far more ditsy and incompetent than in the series. Plus (and I don't think this comes out in the series), she has a real dislike for Miss Marple whom she calls "that terrible Miss Marple . . . She's the worst cat in the village. And she knows every single thing that happens—and draws the worst inferences from it." The scene early-on where a bunch of ladies are invited to tea at the vicarage (which includes Marple) is a funny one. They are a bunch of gossipy old ladies and the vicar himself (for some reason) is sitting in on their tea. The vicar's wife does have a cutting sense of humor. Her husband asks her "What are you doing this afternoon, Griselda"? She answers, "My duty as the Vicaress. Tea and scandal at four thirty." And, indeed, the ladies engage in a lot of gossip. At one point the ladies are talking about the single woman (Miss Cram) who has (scandalously) gone to work as secretary for Dr. Stone, several years her senior. "No nice girl would do it," said Miss Wetherby. "Oh! My dear," said Miss Marple. "I think married ones are the worst." The reverend interrupts this dour gossip with his own viewpoint: "But surely in these days a girl can take a post in just the same way as a man does." The ladies don't agree. The Vicar's wife adds, "Don't you think that Miss Cram may just like having an interesting job? And that she considers Dr. Stone just as an employer?" Now she gets the Marple treatment: There's a bit of Mr. Kung in this Miss Marple. Finally, near the end of the tea at the conclusion of gossip about Lettice posing in her bathing suit for an artist, the Vicar says: "Don't you think, Miss Marple, that we're all inclined to let our tongues run away with us too much. Charity thinketh no evil, you know. Inestimable harm may be done by foolish wagging of tongues in ill-natured gossip." Again, the Marple treatment:
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 14, 2024 9:31:07 GMT -8
Sounds like an interesting book. I will see if I can download it on Amazon for free.
I like you observation that there is a lot of Mr. Kung in Miss Marple. I have always been somewhat skeptical of human nature, but Miss Marple hits the nail on the head when she observes that older heads, at least those with half a brain, understand that one must observe the world as it is and it isn't innocent. Human nature is thoroughly rotten much of the time.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 14, 2024 10:56:43 GMT -8
The resemblance is sometimes uncanny. I was just checking out the cost of a BritBox subscription. If you sign up for a year, it's 7.50 per month. But you can also do 30 days free. That would be more than time enough to check out Miss Marple which they advertise as "Gloriously remastered from 16mm film, see this series like never before." That might be a treat to re-watch some of these. And certainly the version with Joan Hickson as Marple and Paul Eddington as the Vicar is superb in my opinion. It's likely better than the book. But I will still continue with the book and see how one compares with the other.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 14, 2024 15:38:31 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 18, 2024 18:14:03 GMT -8
I finished Murder at the Vicarage this morning. Would I recommend this book? Well, knowing that a TV episode exists, I probably would recommend that instead.
The book is too long. The plot gets convoluted and goes nowhere for a while, circling and circling around to the same things, using the same devices. I think the Hickson episode does a nice job of pairing it down to the essentials.
What is interesting about the book is that the Vicar is the narrator of it. We see almost all of it from his point of view as he gets inserted into nearly every little element of the mystery somehow. In fact, the best parts of the book are his droll observations about all the characters around him.
Marple is, again, a relatively minor figure in this. That's not necessarily bad. But it is what it is. And Slack is even more brazen and obnoxious than anything in the series, although one can certainly catch actor David Horovitch channeling some of his worst.
The one badly-done thing, in my opinion, is the character of Christopher Hawes, who is the Vicar's curate. He's tied up in knots for some reason and all we get (in a novel) is a character who seems to over-act all the time. It could have been a better character.
The chattering old ladies are another good element. And the opening tea party is the height of that aspect. But I don't think Christie writes as deftly as she could. I think the old ladies are under-used. They could have been woven into the story better.
And the Vicar's wife and housekeeper (Mary) basically add nothing to the story, although both characters are worked in much better in the series. But it's a relatively short read. And those predisposed to Agatha Christie are going to love it.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 19, 2024 10:31:13 GMT -8
From what you say, I think I would enjoy the TV episode more than the book.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 19, 2024 12:06:38 GMT -8
Well, the book is at least on the short side. Even shorter is the next one I've started: The Body in the Library. I didn't think the TV episode was astonishingly good. But the interaction between Marple and Slack is superb. I'll see how the book goes.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 20, 2024 8:05:33 GMT -8
I'm a little over halfway into The Body in the Library. And even thought I've seen the TV production numerous times, I'm still not entirely sure who did it. I think in convoluted plots (as this one is), it doesn't stick in my memory who-done-it because, at least in my view, the plot doesn't make any sense until it's explained at the end.
In this one it's interesting because Marple is specifically invited in by the wife in whose library the body was found. Marple and Mrs. Bantry are old friends.
Meanwhile, the man (Jefferson) who had planned to adopt the girl (the likely motive for the murder, if I remember correctly...some family would lose money in the deal) has asked ex Scotland Yard superintendent (and old friend), Sir Henry...who also is an old friend of Marple...to look into it. (All the best people know all the best people, of course.) Because Sir Henry knows how desperately that Jefferson wants this murder solved, he takes Marple into his confidence, well aware of her abilities. He states to Jefferson upon meeting him at his hotel (where Marple and Mrs. Bantry are staying to conduct their own investigation):
Interesting that some of characters from the first book (The Murder at the Vicarage) make at least brief appearances in The Body in the Library (the second Marple book), including the vicar and three of the prime gossip ladies in St. Mary Mead.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 20, 2024 9:02:02 GMT -8
That sounds very familiar. I recall seeing one Miss Marple episode where the policeman said the same thing. I wonder if it was the same episode or this is something that the various inspectors say about Miss Marple to victims?
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 20, 2024 9:20:09 GMT -8
Yes, I think others have expressed similar sentiments. Miss Marple is Mother Time, watching humanity walk about in all its inherent destructive and deceitful capability and putting two and two together. A running theme is one that very much applies to our age where the "think best of everyone" mantra has made most people foolish and morally dubious. Marple is having none of that. She's wrongly accused of simply always thinking the worst of people. But the problem is, she's not blinkered or willfully blind like many of the people around her. Hers is a stoic, but not particularly caustic, attitude. She's very pleasant about her frank assessment of human nature and people and seems surprised by nothing.
I would say also revealed by Marple (thus inherent commentary by Christie) is how stupid the younger generations are. It's the wise, old Marple who has a grasp of things while the rest of the yutes can't find their own ass with two hands. She would, of course, put it in much more gentile terms.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 21, 2024 20:45:59 GMT -8
I finished The Body in the Library. I thought it was a good read. Again, as with most things Agatha Christie, the explanations come fast and furious at the end and don't, at least to me, make all that much sense. And, really, Miss Marple does not delve deeply into her reasoning which seems sort of a cheat.
But as I read along, I remembered elements of the story from the TV episode. Even so, it's not a story I knew by rote and thus a lot of this unfolded somewhat as if new.
Let me write a condensed version of the plot, just to see if I've grasped it correctly. Obviously these are all spoilers.
A body is found in the library of the Bantrys at Gossington Hall. She's identified by Josie, her relative, and fellow dancer at the Majestic Hotel. She'd been strangled.
Now, let me lay it out: Josie is in on it with her husband (they are secretly married) who is the son-in-law of the rich Mr. Jefferson (his first wife had died in an accident). They first kill another innocent girl and dump the body in some young playboy's bungalow hoping to incriminate him.
But the reason for this murder is to create an alibi for their real target: Josies' cousin, Ruby, whom the rich Mr. Jefferson had taken under his wing and promised to will her most of his money. So they plant the body in the young playboys pad. But he comes home drunk, sees the body, and decides as a sort of joke (he's drunk is the excuse) to plant it in Gossington Hall.
Meanwhile they kill Ruby but make it look as if she's gone out for the evening and never returned. And, of course, both Josie and her husband were in the lounge or dance hall of the Majestic with perfect alibis. Ruby had been drugged by Josie when she went upstairs to check on her at midnight (Ruby was tardy and was supposed to be dancing in a show). She stashed her in her room and probably kills her there as well. No one had bothered looking in Ruby's room when they sent someone else up to find the tardy Ruby.
Later, Josie takes the body, puts it in a stolen car, douses it with gas, puts clothes on Ruby taken from the other murder, and rolls it down a quarry. The aim is to make people think this is the other murdered girl. Alibis are complete.
Inspector Slack is in this but there is zero conflict between him and Marple and has a very minor role. I think they do it up better in the TV episode. And, again, I think the TV episode does loads better at evoking the personalities of all involved, although the plot is still convoluted and messy. But whatever. It's Agatha Christie.
And if you didn't understand my plot summation, no worries. I'm not sure I understand it myself. However, I think having that one body moved from one guy's pad to Gossington Hall was a bit too much plot-wise.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 23, 2024 19:29:30 GMT -8
I started reading the third (in the series, 4th I have attempted) Miss Marple novel, The Moving Finger. I had to put it down about 1/5 into it. It's just unusually boring.
As was the TV episode with Joan Hickson. It's just not a good story. And I learned while first reading a review of it that Marple doesn't enter until about 80% into it. Well, that made the decision to skip out of this book even easier.
But reading a couple of these did give me a chance to sample some of Christie's writing. It is what it is and there's nothing I can add to it. But I will say that I don't think she writes relationships between characters very well. Everyone is a little stiff and robotic.
However, in the Poirot TV series, at least, this mostly didn't hold true. Although Poirot was a force unto himself, he did have many cordial relationships, as with Hastings and Chief Inspector Japp. I always love their back-and-forth. In none of the Miss Marple books that I read was there anything like that.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 24, 2024 14:51:40 GMT -8
Couldn't agree more. I liked the fact that Japp and Poirot got along with each other. There was clearly a level of mutual respect between them. As to Hastings, I can only say that I missed him when he was not in any particular episode. As I recall, he just about disappeared from the later seasons of the series.
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