Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 11, 2021 13:33:20 GMT -8
It’s so nice to be understood. It takes a bit to wrap your mind around living in another time. Every damn thing had to be fortified. This one segment in (I think) Hylton castle noted, for instance, that the tight spiral staircase that led to an upper floor spiraled clockwise. This was so that someone escaping up the steps could swing their sword unencumbered in their right hand (lashing back at someone following) while someone following up the steps would be at a severe disadvantage if one were right-handed. You just don’t think of those details unless you live in an era where being on the defense is the norm. Those now living behind gated communities with security are smart to do so. The New Danes (Antifa, black lives matter, various anarchists) are coming for us. Many, of course, are preparing by building a wall of lead. But I will say that the show finds a way, large or small, to immerse you in the time period. Yeah, Mike and Phil are pretty cool. But I especially love the archivist, Robert Bush. That voice. It’s like having Richard Burton on the show. I hope the guy records lots and lots of audiobooks regarding history.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 7:53:34 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 7:53:34 GMT -8
Season 3 episode 2 investigated old river channels where the Thames flowed 200,000 years ago. It was opaque. They need to do a much better job of explaining the archeology. And, really, not much came out of this one.
Season 3 episode 3 visits Templecombe, Somerset, location of a 12th century Knights Templar complex. I wouldn’t say much was revealed in this show either. But it did have an interesting occurrence that sort of verifies the “making it up as they go along” aspect of the show.
The main goal, as stated, is to find the boundaries of the complex (a priory, which contained all kinds of support building for making beer, etc.) They dig a couple trenches and find no boundary wall. Later we learn that Mick had blown off the advice of Robin Bush to consult an old map that showed lands that were tithe-free (which the priory would have been). Also, had they simply spent 15 minute walking around the place they would have found (as they did late in the episode) one of the original walls that was standing there in all its glory.
We didn’t really get the backstory on this cock-up. Much of the information presented is opaque. I suspect there’s a little bit of ivory tower mentality going on, although Tony does his best to try to explain what is going on and why. Even the beer-making demonstration is all but passed over. We see the start of the process but no more until they are drinking the finished stuff. How does it taste? We never find out.
At the end of the day, we learned about zero about the site or the Knights Templar’s time there. Granted, archeology is a lengthy process so expectations of what can be achieved in three days should be restrained. Even so, this was a pretty rough program.
Season 3 episode 4 takes us to Teignmouth, Devon, to explore a shipwreck from 300 years ago. Someone earlier had found some cool brass cannons. But otherwise, there was no knowledge of a wreck. Speculation is that it wrecked at night with the loss of all hands. This episode at least shows the difficulty of underwater excavation. But they do eventually find a piece of the wreck underneath 4 or 5 feet of sand.
Robin Bush tries to pin down the origin of the ship from the crests shown on the two cannon that were recovered previously by locals (the wreck is in shallow water near the shore). He declares it a Dutch ship and then later in the program un-declares it, explaining that the 2-by-2 grid of crest icons on one of the cannon could, in fact, be a conglomeration of different marks by contributors to the funding of the cannon. So we never do learn where the ship came from or where it was going. Still, the underwater sequences were a nice departure for the show. Even Tony suited up and got in on the action.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 8:43:02 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 8:43:02 GMT -8
I had mentioned I was reading The Last Kingdom by Bernard Cornwell. I put the book down after perhaps reading 7% of it because: 1) It was too violent. 2) There were no compelling characters. 3) Although there was plenty of violence in this, it read more like juvenile fiction. But that’s not to say it isn’t a well-researched historical novel. It does seem to have that going for it. But the “novel” part of it is lacking. We (or I) don’t care thing-one for the central character. Ragner could feed his adopted son to the wolves and I wouldn’t blink. And that’s not a good basis for staying involved in a book. This book is written for the Netflix types who can’t get enough bloodlust. Me, I need a little more story and character with my disembowelments.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 9:45:09 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 9:45:09 GMT -8
It’s clear the team is doing something tangible. And although there are a lot of explanations, I don’t always feel like I’m being kept inside the loop. The strong part of this show is Tony who will look down into a trench that the archeologists are all excited about and say something like “All I see is undistinguished dirt.” That’s a segue for the archeologists to then explain themselves, with Tony acting on behalf of the viewer. But it rarely happens. It feels more like the camera is following sort of a “clubby” discussion between professionals.
Season one and two were clearly stronger with season 3 taking a bit of a nose dive. But I’ll stay with it because you do get a certain amount of history with it.
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 9:46:46 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Apr 12, 2021 9:46:46 GMT -8
I was reading The Last Kingdom by Bernard Cornwell. I put the book down after perhaps reading 7% of it because:
1) It was too violent.
It is difficult for historians, archeologists and writers to accurately portray world so radically different from our own. Intelligently, we may know that violence was an integral part of daily life, even as little as 200 years ago go back 1000 and the problem compounds. We know it was a different world, but how different? I wonder would a Viking berserker survive in South Chicago on a weekend? Or would the Shogun Tokugawa? Some writers focus on the blood and guts and it does sell, but it any different from the blood and guts of Shakespeare?
I've not read the Last Kingdom or anything by Cornwall so I withhold judgement on the quality of his writing until I sample it. I respect Brad's opinion and will keep it in mind when I do read it.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 10:29:37 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 10:29:37 GMT -8
It was indeed a violent age. And The Last Kingdom was a popular book and series on Netflix. I think a lot of people would like either.
But unlike, say, Follet’s The Pillars of the Earth (which had some violence), there is no one in The Last Kingdom to root for. Like I said, they can take this pukey little kid and hang him for all I care. An Anglo-Saxon Huck Finn he is not, although that is clearly the attempt.
One reader said the author is “preoccupied with rape and sex.” It does seem that way. And there is no principled argument against that because that age (combined with war) certainly had that. But maybe it’s okay to tone it down a little and have the central characters sketched out in a way where the violence is a backdrop not the main event?
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 12:50:57 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 12:50:57 GMT -8
Without a doubt. And I don’t know enough about the history to say that he over-played it. My objections are aesthetic, not historic. And I fully appreciate that there is a Game-of-Thrones-like appetite for bloodlust out there. This book would fulfill that. Indeed, I think that is the market.
I was hoping for a sort of The Pillars of the Earth with a fair amount of violence, which you’d expect when talking about the Vikings. It might be said that I object to the violence more because there really isn’t anything else propping up the book, at least the parts that I read. I just don’t give a tinker’s dam about any of these characters. And most of the conflicts that are to come between characters is so bleedingly foreshadowed that, like I said, the general vibe of this seems geared more toward juvenile fiction rather than adult fiction.
That said, it’s become obvious that most “adults” these days (in that 15 to 35 demographic) have the aesthetic tastes of juveniles. That’s not an insult, just a reality. You see it in almost any TV commercial where a white male is portrayed. And it’s likely an accurate portrayal. Netflix is full of these types of shows where the only thing going for them is that today’s chimp-a-fied yutes get to see their own chimpafication reflected back at them as normal. And the blood and violence are apparently the only things their simplistic natures can react to.
There. Have I insulted enough people today?
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 12, 2021 18:28:17 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 12, 2021 18:28:17 GMT -8
Oh....I didn't realize this was the same guy who did Sharpe's. Well, likely these Vikings-plunder-Mercia books have more to offer if you just stay with them. But to me they had zero heart and soul. They were cold and lifeless.
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Brad Nelson
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Apr 16, 2021 7:34:45 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 16, 2021 7:34:45 GMT -8
In season 3, episode 4, of Time Team they visit the site of the Navan fort in County Armagh, Ireland. This episode was, by far, the worst of the episodes so far and highlights a major weakness of the show: It was unfocused and scattershot. This episode was a complete waste of time and I came away from it knowing no more than I did. One suspects that aspects of archeology are no different from phrenology. There seems to be a log of guesswork and projecting. In season 3, episode 5, they visit a farmer’s field in Suffolk where hundreds of pieces of Roman pottery have been found. This is better than the previous episode, but barely. In season 4, episode 1, the Time Team comes to Maryland to assist in the excavation and study of St. Mary’s City, site of Maryland’s first European settlement. Here one gets the impression that the geophysics devices that the Time Team routinely use are unknown or rare in America. The team is quickly able to assist in finding the location of the governor’s mansion. It’s still a bit scattershot, but here at least we do pick up pieces of interesting history of this early settlement. And we learn an interesting distinction between British archeology and American. The British use heavy machinery to dig a trench. The Americans use a shovel and do a small area at a time, sifting all the dirt excavated through a fine mesh. In some of the work that is carried out by the Time Team, they find a compromise in techniques, at least for one ditch. The speculation (by Tony?) for the different techniques is that the Americans don’t have many remains while the English countryside is full of them, so basically it would be impractical in England to use the same technique and get anything done. But I don’t think that got to the heart of it and, of course, there was no real discussion of these differences. But one left this episode feeling that the Time Team contributed something substantial and that they gave the Americans many new leads for their excavations. Further work may even uncover where the fort was. That is an unknown at the time of the episode. There is a thriving culture center already at the site which provided a glimpse of the way people lived at the time, although this aspect was also given short shrift by the Time Team. But ample time is budgeted for the more-or-less content-less back-and-forth between the archeologists. This may be the official website: Historic St. Mary’s City. Here’s the section regarding Archaeology and Architecture
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Post by artraveler on Apr 16, 2021 9:03:33 GMT -8
Here one gets the impression that the geophysics devices that the Time Team routinely use are unknown or rare in America. I think that is a false impression. After I retired in 2010 I took the opportunity to take some post grad classes one of which was field techniques in modern archeology. The class spent two weeks in western Oklahoma on a mound builder dig. The professor was George Sabo III who is now director of the Archeological Survey at the U of A. He used his students, including the F-ing Old Guy, (FOG) as manual labor. I dug until my knees gave out and then helped sort artifacts. Professor Sabo used GPR all over the site, and backhoes when necessary, and once down to the artifact layer, in one case about 20 feet it was trowels and brushes. One student remarked that the professor could dig straight down to China with only a two inch brush. Time Team first aired in the 90s when GPR was a relatively new field. And I believe the Tony and the boys had doubts about its efficacy, not only then but even when the series ended. I believe GPR was an American invention designed to detect land mines for the army and marines. So, typical British reluctance to use American technology can't be ignored. Like you, I find that the amount of history uncovered by Time Team is actually small, but the mission of the show is first entertainment and second archeology. And by modern standards 3 days is hardly enough time to properly evaluate any dig. Time Team merely starts a process that will no doubt continue for years at the sites they open. It must be difficult for Mick and Phil as professionals to accelerate the pace of a dig to fit the demands of a TV show. They actually order Tony to get out of their trench several times before he starts asking permission to enter. There have been a few times when I thought Phil would actually come to blows with some obnoxious bureaucrat.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 16, 2021 10:58:57 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 16, 2021 10:58:57 GMT -8
That’s a great example of archeological phrenology.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 16, 2021 12:31:51 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 16, 2021 12:31:51 GMT -8
The Time Team story in Maryland dates from 1997 if that makes any difference. They certainly gave the impression that geophysic devices were something new to America. It could also be that the dig in Maryland was not funded for the use of such devices. Either way, the viewer was left in the dark.
But they weren’t (as yet) using Ground Penetrating Radar. The Time Team geophysics consisted of one device that measured ground resistance. And a newer device (brought in for the Maryland segment or the one just previous) took magnetic readings. But no radar, as such, as far as I can see.
What an amazing adventure…soar knees and all.
I think their forthrightness and honesty in the Maryland dig made total sense in this regard. You get the idea that this (presumably) well-funded TV team can help kickstart things here and there, filling in gaps regarding sites that are too small or risky for “professionals.”
Yeah, there was one segment so far where they more or less ordered Tony out of the trench. And indeed it must be a challenge to both maintain professional standards while trying to (presumably) do something substantial in just three days. I assume there are some extra days involved (by someone) in regards to doing both prep work and filling in the trenches (where applicable).
I do think Phil (my favorite of the two) and Mick maintain an air of professionalism. I obviously love the archivist, Robin Bush (who isn’t given enough screen time). And the sort of token chick, Carenza Lewis, I’m sure is a very fine archeologist. But she’s superfluous in this. Too many cooks in the kitchen. It leads to too much jabbering, not enough sideshows (such as recreating artifacts) or just explaining in a thoughtful way what they are doing. Although they may think it’s great television for the archeologists to (for the camera, plainly) bandy-about their opinions and speculation, it just usually serves to muddle the picture. Sure, show a little bit of their strategic thinking. But they go way too far.
I think Tony tries his best to be an advocate for the viewer and try to bring some coherency to the cacophony-of-dialogue coming from the archeologists. But it’s clear there’s only so much he can do.
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Post by artraveler on Apr 16, 2021 13:22:07 GMT -8
I think Tony tries his best to be an advocate for the viewer and try to bring some coherency to the cacophony-of-dialogue coming from the archeologists. But it’s clear there’s only so much he can do. The last 25 years I been around academics a lot. You might think guys like Phil and Mick are an exception in la la land but they are more the standard than the exception and they have the egos to go with it. Items that a normal rational person might consider to be of minor importance or irrelevant can and do stir up major fights that can influence careers and the all important-----funding. Universities spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring top researchers to their campus, funding digs for archeologists is just one part of the program. Building labs for research for engineers and chemists and even paying salaries for academics who never teach but do nothing but research. Universities also lobby private business to assist in research and the major land grant universities have and obligation to follow through. University of Arkansas is only one of several hundred research universities whose mission is actually expanding human knowledge. All of the agriculture and medicine universities were founded with the same mission. Sadly, this mission and reality have parted ways, sometime around 1990. I suspect that both Phil and Mick with the help of the series have managed to gather enough name recognition to help fund their respective schools from donors and students even though the English system is unlike ours.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 18, 2021 7:33:29 GMT -8
In season 4, episode 3, Time Team investigates an old leper hospital. Not much happens. In season4, episode 4, things get a little more interesting when the Time Team goes to Soho, Birmingham, to excavate the remains of a mint, the largest factory in the world at the time. This “industrial archeology” is a welcome diversion and a completely pointless one. They know the factory was there. They have detailed descriptions and plans of it. There’s no real point in what they are doing. Still, it was fun to see how easily people relent to having the tiles of their patio removed and their backyards dug up, all to get on telly. This is the first use of ground penetrating radar. And it was used more or less successfully to find an old well. The highlight of the show was when they visited the world’s only working old-style industrial steam engine of its type. What a monster. There was no side-adventure about the details of minting coins as there should have been. It was a totally gratuitous “let’s rip up people’s backyards to find what we already know is there” kind of adventure. More or less it was interesting, but generally lacking a point.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 24, 2021 8:40:24 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 24, 2021 8:40:24 GMT -8
I’ve started season 5 of Time Team and it starts off with a dig in Richmond, Surrey, to uncover the remains of a royal palace from the time of Edward III through Elizabeth I. The site is underneath immaculate lawns. The current owners have allowed only three ditches and with some provisos for restoring things to a pristine condition after they are done. Later, the owner (an aristocratic lady) relents to a fourth ditch. At the end of this, she has no qualms because she’s pleased at what they found. What they found were some of the outer walls of the main palace where the royal apartments were. They were able to more or less place the boundaries of these walls within the existing estate. But other than that, it’s hard to say how worthwhile the whole thing was. I’m not sure about the attitude in England at the time (1998). But it would seem that having your place dug up for archeological activities was a form of virtue-signaling…or part of a fad. At the end of the day, there is very little you can do in three days. A prolonged excavation would have certainly unearthed many interesting finds. But it seems long-term is not the goal for anyone. It’s a quick dig, a few pieces of pottery or wall are found, and then it’s all buried over again. In the second episode of season 5, they travel to the lowlands of Somerset to the marshlands to do further research and confirm earlier excavations. Here Time Team arguably contributes something to our knowledge of ancient people. They are trying to find the remains of an ancient raised walkway that supposedly stretched for hundreds of yards, connecting one village with another. Although they didn’t discover the extent of the causeway, they did seem to discover the remnants of one. And most of the fun was in watching a team recreate a small section of a raised walkway. They appeared to have been quite effective in a relatively small amount of construction time, especially given that they were starting from scratch and had to reinvent the wheel, so to speak.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 24, 2021 12:02:19 GMT -8
I had always assumed that a program such as this would have a rather shoestring budget. If they are paying out money to people to dig on their property and use it in a television show, it would be interesting to find out how much.
I had assumed the prestige-factor (Whoopee! I’m on TV) would have meant no payment was required.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 24, 2021 14:38:24 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 24, 2021 14:38:24 GMT -8
These are the behind-the-scenes things it would be interesting to know. They could dig in my parking lot for free if they wanted to. It would just be fun to watch them up close.
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The Dig
Apr 24, 2021 14:51:03 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Apr 24, 2021 14:51:03 GMT -8
shoestring budget. Don't forget this is the BBC so they don't have many restrictions on how they spend money. Think NPR on steroids. Money doesn't matter when you're riding a hit show.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 24, 2021 15:22:02 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 24, 2021 15:22:02 GMT -8
Well, they certainly seem to have no shortage of funds for beer and backhoes.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 24, 2021 16:26:19 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 24, 2021 16:26:19 GMT -8
One thing Artler failed to mention about this series is the 7.5 or better blond broad who shows up as a regular around the start of season 4. She’s does computer stuff. She’s a knockout.
One thing I will say, they found two relatively congenial and non-pompous academics in Phil and Mick.
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