Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 5, 2021 7:51:51 GMT -8
If you like small movies set in England, Scotland, or Wales, you may like The Dig. I’ve pretty much given up on Netflix but I still have access to my brother’s family account. I ran across a “10 Best Movies on Netflix” article so I thought I’d read the synopses of some of them and see if they looked good. None of them did. But I accidentally ran across The Dig while browsing. The movie is based on a fictionalized novel based loosely on the Sutton Hoo excavation near Ipswich. You can see the mound location in the lower left of that Google Map (“Mound 1 Ship”). The novel would appear to be so-so, but the movie adaptation works as half archeological dig and half character study. Ralph Fiennes plays self-taught archeologist, Basil Brown, who was commissioned by Edith Pretty (Carey Mulligan) to excavate one of the mounds on her property. This all takes part (at least in the movie) in the very weeks before the outbreak of WWII. I hadn’t heard of Sutton Hoo (at least that I can recall) so I won’t spoil it for you, although you likely know something about the event. I wish they had gone into greater depth about the artifacts. But certainly the movie is a good jumping-off point for learning more. This is a small movie. No car crashes, bloodletting, or f-bombs. That automatically filters out 90% of the rabble. But I found it engaging and certainly educational. These are the little British ensemble stories that wouldn’t be out of place if produced 30 years ago. This was produced in 2021.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 5, 2021 9:14:58 GMT -8
I do remember reading that it is ongoing and that they have found a few minor relics. I’m now looking for a historical novel set in the Anglo-Saxon realm. I started one last night but it was clearly second-rate. Let me know if you have any ideas. I did start reading a non-fiction book called The Anglo Saxons at War 800-1066 by Paul Hill. So far there’s no reason to believe this is other than a good, if dull, history. One reviewer notes: The gist of the movie itself, as spoken by Ralph Fiennes (who remains involved in archeology, along with his brother, with the Poulton Research Project) as Basil Brown is that to understand who we are, we need to understand where we came from. There were elements like this in the movie that were thoroughly conservative themes. And if (minor spoiler alert) homosexuals are on display, it’s somewhat interesting that they are portrayed more as a failure of men rather than a triumph. You have to read between the lines a little on this. But certainly the loveless (and presumably sexless) marriage of Peggy Piggott (Lily James) was anything but productive, honest, or worthy. The sound-byte theme of Sutton Hoo itself is that supposedly this shows us that the Dark Ages were not so dark. I agree with that premise from what I’ve read from other sources but I’m not sure I’d cast the Anglo-Saxons as the “light” of civilization. But if you find some gold trinkets in a chieftain’s grave, that’s enough to impress the historians who, to my mind, aren’t always a very bright lot. But certainly the artifacts found at Sutton Hoo are astonishing by any standard. I just wouldn’t define the merits of a civilization by what the top of the food-chain could horde or plunder.
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Post by artraveler on Apr 5, 2021 9:16:20 GMT -8
The Dig and Time Team
I concur, it is a good movie. I watched it last year sometime after watching several seasons of time team. Time team was one of the most popular shows on the BBC. A rather quirky group of archeologists headed up by Tony Robinson travel around Great Britain conducting digs of sites that have never been dug. The goal is to uncover as much as possible in a three day dig and report as a television show.
Professors of archeology must scream in their over padded chairs at these people, but they are professional and mostly the are doing the kind of preliminary work necessary to determine if more work is necessary. The professional team consists of Phil Harding, Mick Aston and a variety of experts the series brings in. Phil and Mick are the delight of the series, solely because they fit the image of mildly crazy English academic. Most of England seems to think the same as the series went on for 20 years, ending in 2014. The entire series is on Amazon Prime and is worth some time if your interested in English history and archeology.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 5, 2021 9:30:18 GMT -8
I hadn’t heard of Time Team. I’ll check that out. And with no less than Baldrick. How did I ever miss this series? The gist of it sounds very interesting.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 5, 2021 9:49:56 GMT -8
Very interesting info and photos from that British Museum link. I did read elsewhere that at first they thought no body had been buried with the ship. But the soil samples of later excavations I guessed proved there was one. It’s just that it was not preserved in the highly acidic soil.
That purse lid is truly the stuff of kings or noblemen. And it’s nice to be able to view some of those photographs that were taken back in 1939. That was a nice aspect of the film, although the fellow in the film was a composite of two other characters.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 7, 2021 8:01:21 GMT -8
I’ve watched the four episodes of season one of Time Team. This show ran from 1994 to 2014, so I’m sure the technology that they used changed significantly as the years went by. I might skip to some later seasons and compare.
The first four episodes all have their good points. I love the episode where they found a ring fashioned out of twisted wire. A craftsman was able to duplicate it and he explained the procedure as he made the ring. Great stuff.
But much of the show is about a lot of crosstalk between the various experts as they speculate (using sketchy maps and data) as to what they should do and why. When actual historic events are mentioned, this gives some context to their explorations and it’s good. But much of the time it’s such a scattershot approach. My first thought is that the program is heavily in need of some structure.
It’s a grab-bag of walking about with a camera and listening to the experts as they sift through formless (to a layman's eyes) dirt and explain what they are seeing without necessarily making the viewer any the wiser by their explanations. It all feels a bit rushed and unplanned. And given that they set themselves a three-day time limit, it is indeed rushed.
But the show does show some promise. And certainly you can’t help but absorb some history here and there. What also strikes me is just how layered a history that they have in England. This is particularly apparent in the third episode when they visit Much Wenlock. You can see the roof line of an older building inside of the wall of an existing structure.
But I can tell you with some certainly that, outside of places such as Seattle (which indeed has been built directly on top of older incarnations of the city), if you have a house or commercial building in Washington State, it’s almost certain that if you dug down, you would find nothing but dirt. There is just nothing that came before outside of some coastal Indian villages and such. You might dig down in some rare places and find that. But otherwise there is just about zero history. You couldn’t have a program like Time Team in certainly the western half of the United States. There’s just nothing down there.
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Post by artraveler on Apr 7, 2021 9:47:08 GMT -8
Here in Texas, you find oil Well, we grow rock of all sizes. However in Sacramento if you go down 20 feet you can find the remains of the city in the 19th century. The city fathers got tired of the annual flooding of the Sacramento River and built the city up about 20 feet. So, like Seattle there is a whole underground in Sacramento that few except history professors.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 7, 2021 14:20:34 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 7, 2021 14:20:34 GMT -8
The area around here is actually still rebounding from the last ice age, or so I’ve read. That several-mile-thick sheet of ice compressed the land.
The good news is that it left a lively landscape with lots of lakes, inlets, sounds, hills, valleys, and whatnot. The bad news is that you really wouldn’t want to be a geologist in at least western Washington because underneath the surface in many places is what we call “hard pan” which, as I’ve mentioned before, isn’t all that different from a brittle form of concrete.
It’s why I have to have raised beds in and around my garden. That’s not to say that we don’t have topsoil. We do. But sometimes I wonder if that was imported. That said, from what I learned from my geology professor in college, the Pacific Northwest has an almost unique mixture of geology. The great state of Texas may be great, but the Pacific Northwest has a real laundry list of amazing geological features and history.
I believe the brains of the libtards in Seattle are still rebounding. It will take them some time yet to catch up with an average IQ.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 8, 2021 7:55:09 GMT -8
Episode 2 of Season 2 of Time Team was about Hylton Castle in Sunderland. This is in 1995 and apparently the local community’s castle restoration team was just getting underway. The Time Team is ostensibly brought in to help do an initial survey, although the castle’s official web site has no obvious mention of them. But it appears (especially if you look at that Google Map link) that plans are underway (there’s a lot of bare earth laid exposed) and a grand opening is set or has happened recently. This web site mentions a 2020 date so I don’t know how often they update it. But under “Plan Your Visit” it says: One suspects the Wuhann Flu madness has stalled things. And along with the castle is a large expanse of open space called “Hylton Dene” which is a local favorite for dog walking and such. Anyway, despite the lack of credit on their official web site, the impression is that the Time Team gave them quite a boost. The episode itself was so-so. They dig a few trenches, scan the earth underneath, and then talk about what structures were probably there. Unfortunately, the way it’s presented it all seems like idle speculation. Either they don’t have the time to present their conclusion in a coherent fashion or they’re just making it up as they go along. There is a sense of the latter. And for all the centrality of the castle to the story, we’re not given much of a look at it other than mostly exterior shots. There is one interior sequence but it doesn’t range far. From what I’ve read, the castle didn’t seem to become abandoned until the 1950s or so. But there’s little background in the program on previous owners or how it came to be in the state and shape it is in. Further reading shows that there were several owners and each did a fairly thorough remodel. Nothing is sacred and entire walls or windows were removed or changed to fit the fashion of the times. So the remaining castle is a hodgepodge of influences and remainders. The grounds themselves hold great promise for restoration. Apparently there was previously quite a formal garden with ponds and paths. And if you look to the far right of that Google Map image, you’ll see some rippling in the lawn which, I think, was explained as where a terraced garden once lay. Anyway, given how built up the surrounding area is in Sunderland, they’re lucky to have this open area in their midst. One wishes them the best of luck and it would be a wonderful place to visit.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 8, 2021 9:44:55 GMT -8
I would imagine $15,000 or so per person would be a good figure to budget. Could be less.
The logistics of such a trip intimidate me. How would you plan the route? What to see? Or do you just pick a few places and see what you might discover while just driving around? It sounds like it would be immense fun.
I think a varied itinerary would help reduce “castle fatigue” or any other kind of fatigue. A castle. A seaside village. A battlefield. Stonehenge. A museum or two. Some pubs. I would think a loose variety would be the way to go. Would we thus make good traveling companions if I hit the lottery or do you have some other idea in mind? I just wouldn’t want to be slavishly following a guidebook.
If Artler could come with, I’m sure he could point us to the best stripper bars, although I don't know what they call them in England.
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The Dig
Apr 8, 2021 12:51:31 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Apr 8, 2021 12:51:31 GMT -8
It sounds like it would be immense fun. I think 15 K would be a good start. I missed England and France when I was in Europe, of course I was not a tourist. There are a few places I long to see but probably won't except pictures. There are a few in Wales, Ireland and Scotland that I would like to visit, Harlech in Wales, Carrickfergus in Ireland and Holyrood in Scotland. In France there is only one Fontevraud Abbey and pay respect to Eleanor and Henry II. Of all the 11th century monarchs these two were the most influential, neither England or France would become real nations without them. For the rest just drift with where the urge takes.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 8, 2021 14:49:31 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 8, 2021 14:49:31 GMT -8
That’s a great list. Definitely Westminster Abbey and/or Winchester Cathedral, Hadrian’s wall (a must…good choice), and I could probably take-or-leave the Tower of London. But it would be negotiable. I’d like to see the Uffington White Horse, Stonehenge (and if that's boring, those mounds and stones I read about in one of the Ian Rutledge stories), Oxford (maybe), St. Paul’s, at least one of the great gardens (not sure which), and one good castle. In fact, in regards to cathedrals and castles, I’d rather take time to do one or two well then a whole bunch of them. And I haven’t a clue where to start. I’d leave that to you. I will say that London isn’t high on my list. I’d rather get out into the country. And I’d like to include at least two or three sites in Scotland if possible. That would reduce costs considerably. And I have zero interest in staying in a hotel, although a country inn would be fine.
Oooo....and a nice country ride on an old steam engine of the Great Western Railway. I'll play Watson, you play Holmes (Artler can be Lestrade). We can pretend we are on our way to solve a mystery. I used to have a German friend who would occasionally go to England and do volunteer work for them.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 8, 2021 14:58:33 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 8, 2021 14:58:33 GMT -8
Never heard of it, but it's officially on the tentative itinerary. You had me at "Holyrood." With a name like that, I've got to see it.
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Post by artraveler on Apr 8, 2021 18:12:04 GMT -8
Not that I want to ignore Anglo-Saxon sites but there is much history in --------you guessed -----Israel that is even more ancient. It seems every time a road is build the IAA, Israel Antiquities Authority, must be called in. From Qumran in the north to Masada on the Dead Sea the land is filled with history from yesterday back thousands of years. And the beach in TA isn't bad either, rumor has it that it is so hot in the summer they have to fight the girls to keep their clothes on. Who knows, perhaps when you visit they may lose that fight.
And there is the Aegean, where myths and legends come to life. I think we are going to need a major lottery win.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 9, 2021 6:42:26 GMT -8
In episode two of season two, Time Team visits Tockenham, Wiltshire, to take a look at a pagan Roman statue embedded into one of the outer walls of the 15th century church, St. Giles. They bring in an expert who tells them exactly who the figure is (not who they thought it was) which changes their whole idea about what the story could be behind the statue. That’s the excuse for coming to Tockenham. But the real story picks up when they hear of a local farmer who had found some Roman artifacts in his field. When they scan the field, it appears to be a major Roman villa buried underneath. More info here. This led to the farmer’s land being “scheduled” by the British government which presumably means he lost all use of it and pretty much put a halt to any real exploration by the Time Team, although they were allowed to dig a couple preliminary ditches at the margins. Perhaps the farmer should have kept quiet about the artifacts. I wonder if he is compensated for his inability to use the land. I wonder even if he still has to pay taxes on it. None of this was delved into. As far as I can tell, very little work has been done at the site since the 1994 brief survey by the Time Team. My guess is there are a whole lot of farmers finding things who keep mum about it. I don’t blame them.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 9, 2021 6:49:14 GMT -8
Okay. We’ll pencil in a trip to the Tower. York Minster sounds good as well. It will tie in with the book I’m reading in the Anglo-Saxon period called The Last Kingdom which is part of a series. Apparently there is a Netflix series as well that is based on the books. Early days, but so far it’s a sufficient read. Yes, Kew Gardens would be the ticket.
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Post by artraveler on Apr 10, 2021 7:26:40 GMT -8
There is a fine series on Netflix Secrets of Great English Castles. It covers Dover, Tower of London, Warwick, Carnarvon, Stirling, and Carrckfurgus. It is not an expansive history but give a solid overview of The Who and why these castles were built and good photos of the castles today. I found it mostly interesting with a few moment of repetitive boredom.
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Brad Nelson
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The Dig
Apr 10, 2021 12:51:44 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 10, 2021 12:51:44 GMT -8
I've watched most of that. Great stuff. Very good non-namby-pamby presenter. He isn't apologizing for England and white people ever other sentence. He's just giving the history. I highly recommend this as well, Artler.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 10, 2021 13:06:26 GMT -8
Season 2, episode 3 of Time Team is about Lambeth Palace. Not a particularly good episode. The highlight (as it usually is) is the one team or expert who recreates ancient technology or artifacts. In this one they build a small section of a Roman road. An episode completely focused on the roads would have been much preferred. At the end of the day, they really didn’t find out much in their excavations around Lambeth Palace.
Next up was one set in Winterbourne Gunner where a developer has had to halt his project because of an old graveyard. I commend Tony Robinson for not being a politically correct namby-pamby prick. He was getting in the face of one of these seaword technocrats who informed us that not only did the developer have to stop his work, he had to pay for the excavations that the state demanded. Tony didn’t slap this clown (as he should have) but he didn’t just roll over. He asked her some hard questions
Again, I can guarantee you there are thousands of farmers and developers who have found great stuff while digging or plowing but have hushed it up because of the onerous demands of the state.
I’m all for recovering and preserving the past. But, Jesus H. Christ, I doubt you could swing a dead cat in Britain without uncovering some buried corpse of piece of pottery. There has to be some balance. And if you’re going to devalue someone’s property, it is incumbent upon the state to compensate a property owner. I could have slapped that bitch when she said that the developer had to pay for the excavations.
In this case, Time Team was able to render a valuable service to the developer. They did a fair amount of excavation, including uncovering some graves. By the end of the show, the seaword bureaucrat gave grudging approval for the developer to continue.
The true irony of this (and I would love to share a beer with Tony in a pub to talk about this) is that the one hand of government is interested is preserving the past — while about seven or eight of its other tentacled hands are busy trying its best to overthrow and wipe out Britain, either by importing Muslims or it’s dalliance with the EU. For every acre confiscated from a private property owner, 30 bureaucrats need to be executed or banished from the land.
Season 3, episode 1, visits Boleigh Cornwall where they investigate an interesting cave-like man-made feature called a “foogoo.” At the end of the day, this is also an episode that basically went nowhere. And, again, the highlight was the recreation segment. In this one they smelted some tin. I also got the strong feeling in this one again that, regarding reconstructing the small settlement that once stood here, they were making up an awful lot of it as they were going along. Maybe this is just an honest look at archeology which is likely an inexact a science as is Darwinism.
Would have loved to have seen more about the making of the Roman roads, the tin smelting, the forging of a dagger (which was a too-short segment of a previous episode), and stuff like that. In one of the first shows, they make a suit of cloth “armor” that is stuffed with batting and such in order to cushion sword blows and/or prevent them from cutting. Good stuff these recreation bits. They should concentrate more on them.
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The Dig
Apr 10, 2021 13:28:14 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Apr 10, 2021 13:28:14 GMT -8
Brad,
You have the essence of the series and like all television it is hit and miss. For myself, I just enjoy Mick and Phil they are the genuine article for English academics, just quirky enough to be interesting and intelligent enough to not be boring. With Tony running between them with messages trying to keep up some drama. How much drama can you have on a site 2000 years old?
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