Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 10, 2021 16:25:55 GMT -8
It's remarkable there has been such disagreement amongst Jews and Christians. My view is the Jews have been stubborn and provincial while Christians have been self-righteous and dismissive.
But Jesus was/is by no means a revolutionary (to the disappointment of many). He was/is no illegitimate, invented, and patched-on bit of Judaism as is Islam, assuming Mohammad ever existed.
It's entirely possible that Jesus would barely recognize what Christianity has become. And God (and/or Jesus) would likely be aghast at how utterly lost most Jews are.
Not one jot or tittle. This is not a guy who came to dispatch Judaism as incomplete or inadequate. Rather, the implication of Jesus' words are that all that needs to be has been said (in the Old Testament). That's hardly the basis for a new religion, per se.
If God is little more than human culture and conventions then we are lost. And arguably 99% of what passes for religion (Judaism or Christianity) is a product of culture or identity, not God's laws.
This assault on freedom and morality by governments everywhere under the guise of "keeping us safe" has shown to those with eyes to see just what an empty shell most of today's Judaism and Christianity is. There have been some exceptions but they are few and far between. There has been almost no widespread and deep-felt resistance as there should if measuring by a yardstick longer than "safety."
So the time for most Jews and Christians to stop arguing is now. You're both wrong.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 10, 2021 18:36:20 GMT -8
It's remarkable there has been such disagreement amongst Jews and Christians. My view is the Jews have been stubborn and provincial while Christians have been self-righteous and dismissive. Coming from the other side of the theological tracks, so to speak. I would add condescending to the elements of Christianity towards Jews and arrogant to those of Jews to Christians. But, that is just editorializing. I agree that it is long past time for both to come together, if not in harmony, at least in common defense of the elements in our culture, and fight back, against all that seeks to destroy Western culture. Our enemies too, pray to their idea of G-d. Logic suggests that all can not be correct. I cannot believe that the foundations of our culture are built on sand. There are noble and fundamental ideas in most of the worlds religions and ethical philosophy that rewards grace, peace, intellectual inquiry and our common humanity. There is only one that does not and it rewards not the joy and love of life but is actually a death cult. To date it has about 1 billion adherents. How many of those followers are ready to die for their faith I have no idea, not as many as advertised I think, but even 1% is 1 million. Enough enemies for anyone. The persecution of Christians across the 3rd world is seldom mentioned in the media. And yes, even the persecution of Moslems in China is mentioned more often. And, antiSemitic acts in the west occasionally make the news, but recently it seems with a slant that somehow the Jews were "asking" for it by wearing clothing different from modern. Even the old worn out libel of the "protocols of the Elders of Zion" have been dusted off. Not in some obscure hell hole, but in New York City. I don't know what G-d intended with Christianity, but much of what it is today certainly is not His intent, but neither is modern Judaism. For at lest 500 years western religion, Judeo-Christian, has concerned itself with the symbols of religion and not the substance. How the continuing process will work itself out is anyone's guess but as it stands now we could just mail it in. |
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 10, 2021 19:35:15 GMT -8
I can live with that.  Yep. I couldn't agree more. You got to the substance in one sentence of what I was trying to say. I do believe there is *zero* conflict doctrinally between Christians and Jews...or should be. First, Christianity is (or should be) a form of Judaism, just universalized beyond a specific tribe. The Commands for both (if not the Mosaic Laws) are all the same. But without that initial covenant with God, there is no Christ. Jews need to get used to the idea that they are special and carry a heavy burden for being the chosen people. But surely there are probably billions of other planets where god has created life. And surely he would have some kind of moral structure for them. To think it is sacrilege or undermining their initial Covenant because Jesus reached out to more tribes is the height of stupidity. God is a hell of a lot bigger than any one tribe. But that reaching out (at least on planet Earth) runs directly through and via Judaism. There is no leaving Jews behind. Hell, the early disciples of Jesus and other influential people were mostly thoroughly Jewish. But the principles of God apply to all or they make no sense. Historically, it is believed that God intervened (when supposedly mankind was ready) through the Jews. And that initial importance does not diminish with Jesus and the coming of a more universal form of Judaism. But as you say, too many obsess on the religion and not the substance. Call me lucky to have been able to learn from Dennis Prager for a number of years. |
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Post by artraveler on Oct 11, 2021 14:52:07 GMT -8
But surely there are probably billions of other planets where god has created life Good luck getting the Christian orthodoxy to agree. For them the idea that there might be another creation is the most profound heresy. Jewish theology doesn't address the idea much but I would expect pushback from our more radical elements, unless the aliens show up speaking Hebrew and wearing a kippa. |
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 11, 2021 15:36:54 GMT -8
This is where I part company with much of religion. If you believe in God as Almighty God, all-powerful, etc., and you understand in basic terms the size of the universe and assume no other life exists out there, then "God" for many is little more than an extension of one's ego. So, of course, the idea that I'm Not (said like a Kindergarten teacher) "special" is a blow to the ego. How dare Almighty God use his vast creative power to create something that doesn't make me the center of the universe.
I believe in God Almighty, God the Angry, God the Loving, God the incredibly mysterious, and even God the Redeemer who has throughout history made a connection with mankind.
But what kind of a flipping egotist would I have to be to believe that I am his greatest creation? Jesus, I mean, I know I'm not already (without even other possible worlds to consider) compared to Einstein, Beethoven, Leonardo, Feynman, etc. My ego takes no bruising knowing that Brad Nelson is not God's pinnacle of creation.
If God is merely the extension of my ego then that is not God. I've merely made an idol of myself.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 12, 2021 6:27:43 GMT -8
If God is merely the extension of my ego then that is not God. I've merely made an idol of myself. Yessssss! the fundamental mistake made by every religion. Not any different from the Romans and Greeks and their Parthenon of gods goddesses demi-gods and the like. Most of the world worships a god that behaves no better than a spoiled three-year-old. I confess, I don't have knowledge of what/who G-d is, but there is clear evidence of what G-d isn't. |
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 12, 2021 8:01:44 GMT -8
I think that's a necessary leg of the three-legged stool, so to speak. We have to acknowledge just how out of our league we are fundamentally when talking about things so yuge.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 12, 2021 15:06:28 GMT -8
From my perspective, man's ability to comprehend the boundlessness and power of God is as one molecule of water relative to the world's oceans. I may be overstating man's ability here.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 30, 2022 16:02:34 GMT -8
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 19, 2022 7:21:16 GMT -8
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Post by artraveler on Jul 19, 2022 10:09:00 GMT -8
"And God said... Large elements of mainstream religion have gone bat-shit crazy. |
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 19, 2022 10:28:31 GMT -8
Blaspheming Satanists have taken over that church. And much of our culture.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 19, 2022 10:52:22 GMT -8
No doubt the bats came from a Wuhan wet market.
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