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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 26, 2021 15:03:41 GMT -8
I am a little over 50% of the way through Rendezvous With Rama and, with the exception of one irritating flaw, (the lackadaisical way they reacted to the coming hurricane) find it a pretty good book. When I try to imagine what the interior of Rama looks like, at least the northern area with stairs, something like this comes to mind.  |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 26, 2021 20:31:04 GMT -8
Wow. You're really blowing through that book. And I don't remember anything about a hurricane. It's been that long. And I shouldn't say what I do remember because I know the book unfolds in stages so I'll just keep quiet.
But I'm glad you're enjoying the book. I wasn't sure you'd like it. And I don't think the book tails off at the end so if you've gotten this far, you'll surely make it the whole way.
I just remember that Rama was a big-ass ship.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 27, 2021 13:36:51 GMT -8
I'm past page 200 of a 243 page book. "Creatures" have started to appear in Rama. These would appear to be part biological and part machine. The supposition is that there is some sort of program which switched on and produced these things from the "oceans" in Rama.
I just left off when the Hermians (those from Mercury) secretly sent a 500-1000 megaton nuclear devise to destroy Rama if the Hermians determine that Rama is possibly a threat. Of course, everyone else is irritated with the Hermians.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 27, 2021 13:48:24 GMT -8
Yes, I remember that. It seems the group stumbles into certain areas and some creatures appear, perhaps to try to keep the humans in check, sort of like they are garbage collectors? It's been a while. And I have no memory of Rama's oceans. I could probably read this again.
Stupid Hermians. Don't they know the outer hull is likely impervious to anything as trivial as a nuclear devise? Or so I assume so. No spoiler there considering there were three sequel books.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 27, 2021 14:17:51 GMT -8
They start as frozen bans around the circumference of the inside of Rama. They separate Rama into sections. Over time, they melted and that is what caused the hurricanes I previously mentioned.
The oceans are soups with all sorts of nasty chemicals in them. They only resemble earth's ocean in that they are wet.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 27, 2021 14:31:50 GMT -8
Oh. Now that's coming back to me a little. Don't remember the nasty-chemical part though. If you finish this and like it, I could recommend book #2. After that it''s a much dodgier recommendation.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 27, 2021 14:38:22 GMT -8
It wasn't nasty in the sense of some dump from a chemical company, rather it had all sorts of things in it which would be harmful to people. The explorers were warned to stay out of the ocean and certainly do everything they could not to swallow any if they fell in.
I believe Clarke's intent was to have the ocean be a primeval reservoir for the creation of life and machines on Rama. There would be no need to mine for minerals or smelt metals, etc.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 27, 2021 14:50:23 GMT -8
Hmm. Interesting theory about the oceans. Probably some truth to that given I know how all this plays out after four books.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 9:16:55 GMT -8
I finished the book last night. I am of two minds regarding the ending. On the one hand, I liked what appears to be Rama's actual reason for visiting the solar system. It is an interesting idea. On the other hand, I was left not knowing what Rama is about. I had the feeling that Clarke was using the same technique we see in TV where the story builds to an apparent climax and all is about to be revealed when the announcer breaks in and says, "Tune in next week for the conclusion of our story." While I find this type of thing irritating, I must say that it is often very effective. In this case, I think it is working because I am considering checking out the second book in the series if my public library has it. Why do I suspect that I will also be left hanging by that book?  |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 10:25:58 GMT -8
The book is not fresh in my mind, but everything you say resonates with me. And, yes, the ambiguity of it all is obviously intended as a way to interest you in the next book. You will be left hanging. I would say (humbly) that this is a fool's errand. The final and complete ending (to my mind) was never worth it and seemed sort of dumb.
I think if you know this you can then go on and enjoy the second book. Just don't expect a sense of completion to this series. And if at any time you want to know what's going on in the overall, just ask me. It may or may not spoil the fun. I still remember the ending (of the 4th book) not necessarily really matching or presaging all that came before. That is, it seemed a bit like a cheat.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 11:53:48 GMT -8
This is more often than not the case with most books, films and tv series. It is relatively easy to develop an interesting story, but very difficult to tie everything together to make an entertaining and logical ending.
If I had to distill the content of the book into one thought, it would be that Rama is visiting the solar system to fill up at our cosmic equivalent of the local Texaco station. That Clarke could draw this out to almost 250 pages is a feat in itself.
I believe the oceans/seas are basically "recycling" units, what we used to call scrap yards, somehow connected to production and refining operation.
By the way, from what I have read about Clarke, he was at least as bad as Asimov. He was the perfect globalist.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 11:57:19 GMT -8
Could you explain to me what it appears to be? I forgot.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 12:14:49 GMT -8
It appears that Rama has traveled all the billions (trillions) of miles to refuel itself by directly drawing energy from the sun, and then continue its journey. Nobody in the book had thought of this and were surprised when Rama re-aligned its trajectory to fly straight at the sun. The description of this scene is fairly short and fairly general, which one would expect from an author trying to write about something which is purely theoretical, while trying to make it believable.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 12:52:07 GMT -8
Okay. Refueling I would say is a proximate cause. Not the ultimate cause. I will tempt you like Satan. LOL. But if you want to know the ultimate cause, click to show the spoiler. I don't recommend that you do so before reading the second book. But I certainly would before picking up the third (which is a mashed bit of writing, as is the fourth). Rama is a vessel sent out by God. He (must have been reading Stephen Hawking) creates universes with random properties. He then uses vessels (and the agents on the vessels) to collect specimens and overall see how that particular universe is doing.
It's been a while, but I believe that is the gist of it. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 13:03:53 GMT -8
When the book ends, Rama has fueled up and continues on its journey. Nobody has any idea of its destination except that is it moving in the direction of the Large Magellanic Cloud. An analogy would be me getting into my car and driving in the direction of Washington. I have to stop for gas somewhere along the way. The refueling stop is only incidental to the destination. Of course, the last paragraph of the book deals with the scientist Perera who wakes from a dream in which he thinks, "The Ramians do everything in threes." This is clearly a hint that we will be hearing more from them. Perhaps the first Rama is just to de-sensitize mankind to the fact that there are definitely others out there. In this way, humans won't be so disturbed the next time another Rama appears. I can control myself. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 13:32:20 GMT -8
I don't honestly remember if they eventually "come in threes," that there is another ship or two. And I didn't remember that penchant for threes until you mentioned it.
What I like about the book is that I think the basic concept is sound. Certainly there is the central mystery of what Rama is. But *that* a Rama-like thing (perhaps purely mechanical) could fly through our solar system is certainly plausible.
That spoiler is going to gnaw and gnaw at you. Honestly, the way it plays out, I'm not sure if they had the ending idea when the first (or even the second) book was written. Could be wrong. But it has a tacked-on feel.
I remember the "hooked in" factor when reading these. I think book #2 was okay. But only the "hooked in" factor led me to #3 and #4 which otherwise are pretty much boilerplate mediocrity.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 13:35:16 GMT -8
Here's another spoiler. This one is safe to click. Sort of.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 14:30:57 GMT -8
I wondered this myself. I had the feeling that when the book was written, Clarke had no definite idea of where things were going. The book's story is plausible, but I couldn't discern much much beyond that. If that is Rama's product, then I am beginning to warm to the series. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2021 14:55:46 GMT -8
They come in threes. But the twos are good too.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 28, 2021 18:55:53 GMT -8
Transferring their species to another planet or generally seeding the universe were always options. Perhaps, with their superior technology and knowledge they were able to determine a far-away planet which would be suitable for them settling. Maybe it rained "forty days and forty nights" where they used to live.
I may read the second volume, but my gut feeling is that I won't go further. Three and four sound like a lot of filler to me.
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