Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 30, 2019 16:49:24 GMT -8
Very interesting comments, Mr. Kung. That’s a lot to chew on.
I’ve had few European pen pals and/or people I’ve gotten to know at least superficially on Facebook and such. My overall impression of coming into contact with Europeans is one of sadness. I’ve never really had a deep religious experience. And yet I’ve seen the opposite, the deeply irreligious experience.
That corrosion goes far beyond mere right and wrong. It’s the inability to hold a noble or beautiful thought. And whatever my own shortcomings and limitations are, I believe I can do that. And so it’s especially acute for me to run across what one could euphemize as a “secular” outlook.
I’ve run a bit far afield. I’m not necessarily describing your Swiss friend. But within the European mind, despite affectations of being broad-minded, I consistently see a narrowness. And the extent of this narrowness is (again) something that makes me more sad than angry.
Joseph Campbell, somewhat ironically, wrote about a world that had lost touch with its myths. If everything is de-mythologized and dissected there isn’t much left but a pretension of “reason” and of an intelligence that is only an illusion because one is living in a valley. A mind that has restricted itself to only the material has put out one of its own eyes.
I would imagine a normal American would, in theory (from the 50’s or 60’s), have a far broader view than most people in Europe. There are always going to be exceptions, and perhaps your Swiss friend was one. But having a “broad view” on matters of drugs and sex is not a substitute for a truly broad view on 99% of the rest of the topics that we humans have on our plates.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 30, 2019 16:54:32 GMT -8
Now that you mention it, I think sex and drugs might have been the topics my Swiss friend and I were discussing. At least they were probably part of what we were discussing. Religion probably also came up.
I made clear that as an American, I grew up with many more options than he had as a Schwitzer. He had to agree with me.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 30, 2019 17:03:59 GMT -8
I have added some more thoughts as well as three links to some excellent pieces by Bach. I can highly recommend each.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 30, 2019 17:25:12 GMT -8
By coincidence (or, well, not really…he seems to be one of the go-to guys for Bach), I ran into the name, Glenn Gould last night when trying to find a good recording of the Goldberg (not Jonah) Variations. Glenn Gould was the only name that showed up on Apple Music for this. And this rather forceful (wish you could see him…he has to be a Kraut but I’m not sure) lecturer also mentioned Gould. So I’m eating my spinach. I listened to a bit of the Goldberg Variations last night. But then I had to find some relief and listened to Yo-Yo Ma’s Six Evolutions via Apple Music. (I’m listening to it right now.) You get the complexity (and all the other big words) of Bach without the harshness. Still, I will get back to the Goldberg Variations as well as a double helping of Brussels sprouts with his 24 sets of preludes and fugues in The Well-Tempered Clavier. Nearly everyone has heard the masterful Prelude and Fugue No 1 in this series:
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 30, 2019 17:34:00 GMT -8
Here’s one of the lectures I’m working my way through: Great Solo Piano Works. You have the see this lecturer to believe him. You’d think that Robert Greenberg, Ph.D., was a football coach . He’s a riot of in-your-faceness and forceful opinion…about classical music. He’s annoying at times but he’s also a hoot. On the namby-pamby meter, he rates an incredibly low 0.7. That’s not 7 out of 10. That’s point-seven. You have to see him to believe him. I can’t really describe him. But you wouldn’t expect the lecturer in a formal series about the piano (and the great composers for the piano, including J. S. Bach) to be taking shots at Justin Bieber. But he does. Like I said, sometimes annoying but how can you not ultimately succumb to the charm of a guy who takes shots at Justin Bieber? You might have to do the free trial, Mr. Kung, just to see this character.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 30, 2019 19:01:40 GMT -8
Perhaps my tastes have been eroded by exposure to Satan’s music which is otherwise known as pop music. I feel that I *should* like even J.S. Bach’s stuff written for the keyboard. Maybe it will come.
Brad, There is nothing so heavenly as a classical orchestra conducted by a skilled conductor. If a million years from now all that is left of humanity is our classical music, than I would say we have made a gift to the universe. The examples are many but I offer a few: Mendelssohn 5th symphony "The Reformation" Mendelssohn 3th symphony "The Scottish" Mahler 1st symohony Schubert 8th symphony "unfinished" Schubert 9th symphony "Great" Beethoven 3rd Beethoven 5th Beethoven 7th Beethoven 9th "choral" Mozart 41 Hyden 97 Mozart Don Giovanni Dvorak 5 "From the New World" Brahms 1st Brahms Hungarian Dances Bach Fugues on organ Saint Seines organ symphony That's just a few from my playlist, but I think you get the idea
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Post by timothylane on Dec 30, 2019 19:10:23 GMT -8
Nothing by Tchaikovsky? No 1812 Overture or Nutcracker or Romeo and Juliet?
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Post by artraveler on Dec 30, 2019 19:55:58 GMT -8
Nothing by Tchaikovsky? IMHO Tchaikovsky is overrated. 1812 is very suitable for fireworks on the 4th of July and most of the rest is mildly interesting, but his major failing is that every theme, even minor ones, he always repeats.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 30, 2019 21:04:37 GMT -8
I would add Brahm's 2nd, 3rd and 4th symphonies, and his 2nd piano concerto. I just heard his 1st piano concerto for the first time yesterday, so I cannot yet make a determination, but I liked it.
"Clair de Lune", "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun" and "La mer" by Debussy
"Parsifal" and any of Wagner's other operas.
"Les preludes" by Liszt
Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto and his "Variations on a Theme from Paganini."
Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor
De Falla's "Nights in the Gardens of Spain" (I particularly like Guiomar Novaes' recordings of this and Grieg's Piano Concerto in A minor)
Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranjuez" (I think the greatest guitar concerto ever written.)
As for Tchaikovsky I prefer his 4th symphony, but agree with Artler that he doesn't reach the same level as these others.
Another composer who I like is Frederick Delius whose work is in someways similar to Ralph Vaughan Williams whose "The Lark Ascending" should also be on this list.
There are many many more.
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Post by timothylane on Dec 30, 2019 21:54:04 GMT -8
I like Tchaikovsky, probably as much as anything because so much of his music is familiar. Elizabeth is a big fan of Mozart. Unfortunately, only a modest amount of his work made it onto our MP3 files -- and that would be irrelevant for her anyway because we live in separate nursing homes. Grant McCormick (who lives in yet another but has sought to move to this one) is a devoted Bach fan. Since he created and updates our music collection, the result is that Bach is well represented.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 31, 2019 8:27:10 GMT -8
Thanks for the recommendations, Artler. Scanning your list, I see no Justin Bieber. So I’m thinking I could work my way through that and make some progress. I’ll give some of those a try and report back.
I did listen to some more of the Jonah Goldberg Variations (those would be the ones by Bach but played in an anti-Trump sort of way). And I listened to more of his The Well-Tempered Clavier series.
Having eaten my vegetables, I then went on to listen to a little jazz by Art Pepper. You will surely note that Pepper is Bosch-approved.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 31, 2019 8:30:39 GMT -8
Mr. Kung, one of the joys of Apple Music is the various playlists they construct (and will present to you as they track your tastes). They have various playlists of classical music that work like the great recommendations of you and Artler. You get a sampling of some good things. And if you hear a track that you particularly like, you can go right to that album and add it more permanently to your list of favorite albums. It might be a hodge-podge approach but it does generally work and gives you some variety.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 31, 2019 8:40:33 GMT -8
Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranjuez" (I think the greatest guitar concerto ever written.) We are in complete agreement. He treats the guitar as a 6 string piano.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 31, 2019 8:45:02 GMT -8
I’m very sure the first classic album I ever purchased (and I was a teenager at the time) was the 1812 Overture. I can’t disagree with anything Artler said because I frankly haven’t listened to much Tchaikovsky beyond that. But it’s a good one for the fireworks and cannons.
As with Elizabeth, I am a fan of Mozart. For better or for worse, he had (for his time…and our time) a much more pop sensibility to much of his music. You could hum a few bars of Mozart but might be hard-pressed to do that with most of Bach’s stuff. (A very notable exception below.)
Bach is like the marriage of mathematics and art. And sometimes that marriage (to my simple palate) seems to come apart and I hear someone banging on the keys as fast as they can to impress rather than creating beautiful musics. Yes, from watching this one lecturer I mentioned, I have learned there are rhythms and themes within rhythms and themes. And there is absolutely no doubt as to why his works (such as The Well-Tempered Clavier) have been used as training books for learning the piano. If you can do these, you can do anything.
And, of course, Mozart was greatly influenced by J. C. Bach…as well as J. S. Bach. (And taught by Joseph Haydn.) These things are to some extent a matter of taste. I find Beethoven to be a bit heavy. Like I said, my tastes have no doubt been formed by all the trashy (although often catchy) 60’s music and beyond.
I was thinking the other day what a shame it was that Lennon and McCartney didn’t do at least one classical music album with George Martin, using their own original compositions, of course. Instead of “Band on the Run” or “Imagine,” imagine if they had added something truly beautiful and perhaps even semi-permanent to the world of music. People will be tapping their foot to the following long after the last copy of “Hey Jude” has fallen into dust.
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Post by timothylane on Dec 31, 2019 9:27:33 GMT -8
The background music on that piece was certainly familiar, though I don't recall where I've heard it before (and probably more than once). It could have been used in popular music (that happens occasionally), but I have a feeling I heard it straight.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 31, 2019 9:30:06 GMT -8
I figure, if it hasn't been heard in a Bugs Bunny cartoon, it can't be any good. Not sure it that applies to the above song or not.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 31, 2019 10:10:32 GMT -8
The cartoons and television shows of the 50s and 60s used a lot of classical music. In many ways it was a ver subtle introduction to the style. I recall listening to Grofe Grand Canyon Suite at Disneyland
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 31, 2019 10:44:09 GMT -8
Sounds like it is one of the real benefits of the internet.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 31, 2019 10:46:52 GMT -8
This isn't a piece of classical music, but I love this poke at opera:
I don't think anyone wants to sit through this, including me, but here's someone's compendium of Classical Music in Cartoons:
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 31, 2019 10:46:59 GMT -8
Rossini was particularly popular, but one heard Grieg fairly often as well.
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