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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 21, 2022 11:58:19 GMT -8
This type of thing takes place around the world. Have you noticed how many black women have double surnames in this country? I believe the real origins lay in the last point mentioned in your post, i.e. the names were connected to certain lands, the names of which became attached to the people who owned them. This was a good way to identify the background and status of the aristocracy. Here's an example. I, too, found the Lambert-Lambert's comical, but this type of thing apparently happens more often than one might think. Nicely nicely In case you didn't get it
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Post by artraveler on Feb 21, 2022 12:37:54 GMT -8
I believe the real origins lay in the last point mentioned in your post, i.e. the names were connected to certain lands, the names of which became attached to the people who owned them In the South before the war and after slaves and ex slaves often took their masters last names, or the name of the plantation they were from. Additionally, they would add a vowel to the name. For example Almond becomes Allmond. It was an easy way to distinguish a Black name from white. And, of course there is the mixture of races when slave owners had children with their Black slaves. Often the offspring would take the name with the extra vowel or hyphenate with the mother's name. It makes for very confusing genealogy for Blacks and Whites.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 21, 2022 12:42:49 GMT -8
Here's to Ben Bag-Bag, rabbinic sage. With a name like that, he has to be good. Another fellow seems to have a built-in echo in his name: Alexandra Hall Hall.
And this other one reminds me of some other double-names that we are familiar with: Jacques-Roger Booh-Booh .
We all know Ann- "Boom-Boom" Margret, whose own hyphenated name is interesting unto itself.
And then there's Marilyn "Boom-Boom" Monroe of the Boston Monroes. You get the picture.
Would have never got the Guys and Dolls reference without a crib sheet.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 21, 2022 13:47:44 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 21, 2022 18:38:04 GMT -8
I was looking for the Seinfeld clip on Guys and Dolls...the one where George says, "It's not guys and guys, Jerry. It's guys and dolls." Couldn't find it but ran into this classic instead:
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 21, 2022 18:48:51 GMT -8
I didn't much like Seinfeld, but that was funny.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2022 10:14:53 GMT -8
Still very early in Death of a Dishonorable Gentleman . I didn't get much reading done over the weekend. The sun was out so I spent some time cleaning the grounds.
However, the first question for Mr. Flu-Flu is: How do you pronounce "Iyntwood"?
Interesting to see the detective relationship emerge with her ladyship and Mrs. Jackson. There's a good scene where Clementine is in the thick of it, feeling overwhelmed, but steeled to the need to act decisively.
She meets with Mrs. Jackson and then proceeds to completely scandalize Mrs. Jackson with her requests, her familiarity, and the breaking of the wall between servants and masters. Clementine piles on heaps of scandalous ideas in a fast-paced soliloquy as she considers what actions need to be taken, especially by Mrs. Jackson. Mrs Jackson spy on (or question) members of her own staff? Her ladyship discussing with her the actions of the family and friends? Her ladyship asking Mrs. Jackson to given an opinion on her family and friends?
Mrs. Jackson has a hard time sleeping that night as she considers all the broken upstairs/downstairs conventions she has been asked to take part in. She finally gives her equivalent of "eff this" and decides that the primary job of serving and protecting the family will, in this instance, allow for these various breachings of convention. And we all know (from later books) that she takes to this like a duck to water.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 22, 2022 11:36:12 GMT -8
I would pronounce it with an i which sounds like "hint." That is just a guess.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 25, 2022 9:21:30 GMT -8
I generally agree that the book was a decent read.
What a wonderful, non-woke dig at the French. I loved that line. I don't know a lot about Tessa Arlen, but more than a little affinity for traditionalism seeps through.
Even with the inclusion of the suffragette movement, it is clear that Arlen is not taking that side too easily. The idiot daughter of the Lambert-Lambert-Lamberts is hardly treated as an unblemished hero. Arlen outs her as the kind of spoiled, bored-with-life, narcissistic yute that infects our own age with their stridently self-righteous "causes." She does so again in the novel in which Iyntwood is turned into an Army hospital during The Great War, more than once pointing out the superficial silly city girls who are a fish out of water in the hospital.
Like I said, just throw me a bone. Although I think if we take the long view (centuries-long) we might view the suffragette movement as a disaster for the West, Arlen does throw me the bone of showing one if its adherents to be an insufferable c-word.
Still, my initial criticism of the plot stands and is confirmed by the ending. Teddy was such an irrepressible dirt-bag, the rest of the upper-class characters are left in the position of being "shocked, shocked" that this yute was 100% evil.
The very people whose station in life depends upon their class being perceived as being inherently superior seems not at all bothered by, or perceptive to, the behavior of Teddy. The preservation of their reputations (and the avoidance of scandal) should have led them to distance themselves from him.
Teddy deserved what he got and yet Lord Montfort – whose family totally failed Violet Simkin – has the temerity to give Mr. Simkin that whole "England is a land of laws" speech. It was a dollar short and a day late. Justice would have led Lord Montfort to supporting a "person or persons unknown" verdict.
As it was, Mr. Simkin would pass the few remaining days in his house. But, still. This is where the self-righteous Lucinda Lambert-Lambert-Lambert has her strongest case. Teddy was repeatedly raping Violet and yet no one in the house (include the staff) were even mildly aware of this girl's intense trauma. It is Ms. Lambert-Lambert-Lambert who rescues her from the meat-grinder.
The plot got a bit convoluted here and there. That's almost unavoidable with a mystery story. The worst bit was when Mrs. Jackson was out strolling the grounds at night and is attacked. The guy tells her to lay off her investigation or else. But how did he know she would be out taking a walk just then and just where she did? Was he waiting in the bushes for days (and in the rain) for just such an opportunity? It was a terribly gadgety plot point and unworthy of this otherwise mostly logical novel.
Fairly early-on my top assumption was that Teddy was murdered by Violet's father. When Violet went missing, it seemed obvious that she must have been assaulted in some way. But that was just a guess. It was a theory that didn't take in or resolve 90% of the other plot points left hanging. But it turned out to be correct.
However, I thought the resolution would be something different. I expected some bigger plot, some plans of Teddy that went terribly wrong. And when we got that offshoot of the jewel robberies, that didn't seem to be a good culmination of some of the loose ends. It seemed more like one of Agatha Christie's cheap red herrings (or "red fish" as Poirot calls them).
Still, you are immersed into this historical time period and that aspect seems fairly well done. We learn near the end that the estate of Lord Montfort is 80,000 acres. That's a piece of land that is 11 miles by 11 miles. That is almost a Texas-sized holding.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 25, 2022 9:31:56 GMT -8
I also thought this was nonsense. This was one of two very weak points toward the end. The other was old-man Simkin being able to manhandle Terry out of the box on the wagon and hang him from the gibbet. I thought that to be very unlikely given the fact that Simkin was dying from tuberculosis and was very weak as a result.
I also wondered how Teddy could for, several weeks, rape a girl in a house without the, over thirty, people living in and around the place having any idea of this taking place.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 25, 2022 10:30:42 GMT -8
Good point. I'm used to being let down by endings and there was a bit of that for me in this one. What I liked were some of the individual scenes. There's one where Mrs. Jackson strolls the gardens nonchalantly but is actually intent on catching Mr. Stafford's eye. And they have a nice moment together in the garden where the ice queen's adherence to slavish in-service sexlessness begins to melt.
And that is an issue that we see dealt with to some extent with Mrs. Jackson. For her, service was a path out of the gutter. But she wonders what price she has paid. Is there any identity for herself outside of serving these people who are born with a silver spoon in their mouths?
Also interesting (and I wish this was explored further) was the apparent ubiquity of what could only be deemed wife-swapping. There was apparently a lot of adultery going on at these house parties...presumably less so at the more conservative house of the Montforts. They were described as a somewhat rare couple: They actually loved one another and didn't fool around on each other as some kind of "entitlement" for the upper crust (as long as they kept it quiet).
When it was learned that Teddy was blackmailing one of these couples, it was a moment where you have to scratch your head and wonder who the villain is.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 27, 2022 8:27:03 GMT -8
I've just started (about 10% into) A Death by Any Other Name. This is the third book in the series. This may be too much Mrs. Jackson too fast, but I don't have anything better on the shelf to read at the moment. There are no spoilers as of yet, although you may want to read the setup from scratch yourself. I found it interesting that in this instance a case is brought to Mrs. Jackson as if, as Jackson notes, they were a mere detective agency. A cook recently dismissed from Hyde Castle (residence of the Haldanes) was referred to Jackson by Mr. Stafford. Stafford had been doing some garden work for the Haldanes. One of Mr. Haldane's guests at a recent "Hyde Rose Society" gathering (a little club that meets every three months) died. The inquest put it down to food poisoning (haddock that had gone off in the kedgeree). The cook was dismissed but no other action taken against her. The problem is, the cook (Mrs. Armitage) had eaten from the same serving of the kedgeree with no ill effect. Mrs. Armitage desperately wants to repair her reputation...as well as secure a new job (which can't be done without a reference). So something is rotten in Hyde Castle, and it's probably not the haddock. How Clementine Talbot and Mrs. Jackson are able to insert themselves into a re-investigation of this incident, I don't know. But I suppose that Clementine will wheedle an invitation from Mrs. Haldane for a short stay at Hyde Castle. We shall see.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Mar 2, 2022 15:36:30 GMT -8
I just finished A Death by Any other Name. Of the four existing Jackson/Montfort mysteries, I would consider this one (#3) to be the weakest. To be a good writer is difficult. To be a fair writer takes much effort. But to be an autopilot writer I think just takes a supply of #2 sharpened pencils and a dry place to sit. The formula was there. But the plot was rather thin. The characters were a dull set – a bunch of cardboard cutout ladies of a rose club. And if there were men, mostly they were arrogant/belligerent men -- thinner than even cardboard as they are portrayed. And even when the writer tried to give the characters some character, it was sometimes via commandment rather than by illustration. Mrs. Jackson just felt there was something creepy about the butler at Hyde Castle but could offer no reason why. And certainly the author gave the reader about zero illustration of that character. You have basically one plot element (a murder) and then a series of rose-club ladies sitting around having the same discussion that you just read five pages ago. Round and round it goes. The one character of even marginal interest is a Mr. Urquhart. He's a strange man but at least one who seems deeper than just a dashed-off stereotype. The shyness and reticence that Mrs. Jackson has for and between Mr. Stafford is tired and old. This goes nowhere (although, I think, in the fourth book they may actually sit down together in the garden and chat). In book #1, this made sense. But in book #3, this just becomes dull. Stafford makes no move to be assertive toward the ice queen and Jackson makes no attempt to melt the ice. Sure, in real life these relationships are real and frequent. But for a book, they needed to move this along a bit. My favorite of the 4 (and that is all there is in the series at the moment) was Death Sits Down to Dinner. But none of the books are bad, per se. But this third one does seem a bit dashed out.
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