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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 27, 2022 21:17:03 GMT -8
You'll love this passage from Officer Chee in People of Darkness:
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 28, 2022 9:29:01 GMT -8
I'm just over halfway into People of Darkness. It's a very conventional crime story. But it is readable so far. It's just that you shouldn't look to be wowed by rich descriptive language or a truly unique plot. The writing is competent, even a bit minimalist. And I rather it err on the side of minimalism. But the story and characters could be a tad richer.
We get some descriptions of Navajo beliefs through Officer Chee. And I find that interesting. This is a short-ish book so I should be able to breeze through the rest in the next couple of days. These stories are (so far) definitely not padded.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 29, 2022 21:57:27 GMT -8
I finished People of Darkness. I thought it was generally good...about a 6-1/2 on a 10 scale.
I had two main issues with it:
1) The sidekick girl added nothing to the story. 2) I don't care for plots that try to add depth simply by upping the body count.
But it finished fairly strong. Like I said, the writing and plot is fairly conventional. There's nothing here particularly clever. And thus, luckily, there is nothing too clever by half which is the bane of so many plots.
Hillerman just plods along, hoping that immersing you in some Navajo culture with give the books their main interest. And to some extent, that works fine. No points entered about Navajo beliefs, attitudes, or practices seemed out of place. And, yes, I know that's the reason why the completely nondescript and un-fleshed-out sidekick girl was there. It was so that Chee could explain The Navajo Way to her.
And all the plot mysteries are explained by Chee near the end instead of acted out or the reader slowly discovering them. As I said again, the plot was nothing to write home about. But the book does have the strength of exoticism regarding the Navajo way of life and the barren, but somewhat interesting, geology of the reservation.
And rarely do I figure out a plot before the author intends you to. But it was pretty obvious early-on that those black rocks were uranium ore. I'm not sure why Chee didn't instantly suspect that. Later he says something like "I don't know why I didn't think of it." I do. The author got a little sloppy in his plotting.
But there's no PC or "wokeness" here. And the writing was not ponderous which was a big plus. It just needed some more spices and a little better plotting. But I could certainly recommend this as a read. I think Mr. Flu would blow through this in a day. It's not a long book.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 9:39:16 GMT -8
I'm through five episodes of The Name of the Rose. It's holding up just fine. But it makes you realize just how good of a condensation the Sean Connery movie was.
We're spending far more time with Edso and his infatuation with the girl. The original movie handled it in maybe four minutes and we're not the worse for it that it wasn't extended into an hour.
At the end of episode five, the formal debate between the Franciscans and the Pope's men has started. It's rather funny because it elapses into a Monty Python sketch worthy of The Life of Brian. Fisticuffs break out on the debate floor. I don't remember anything like that in the movie.
And I haven't read the book so I don't know what is true to the book. Is it true to the book that Anna seems to have some Lesbo attraction to Edso's girl, La Ragazza?
And in another Monty Python moment, Salvatore has been setting animal traps for the girl (Edso's girl) that he knows is living in the nearby woods. He caught her once but Edso happened to be nearby, heard hear screams, and cut her down. (It's the type of trap where you step into a loop, the loop tightens on your ankle, and then you are lifted upside down into the trees above the ground.)
Well, this dumb girls falls for it again. She sees a rabbit under a tree, tries to grab it, and is instantly hoisted into the air by Salvatore's trap. This time he has her. He drags her off to his home and ties her up.
Shades of feminism which says that women don't need the protection of men. But here we see in this trap the perfect metaphor for why women need men to protect them...if only from other men. Women themselves cannot currently find their way out of the trap of having to shower with male athletes who are pretending to be women.
And we're all becoming trapped by prosecutors who will not prosecute, reduced police departments, and the support by government of the lawless while they persecute the lawful.
But women are the majority coalition and they support this. There are conservative women who carry guns and know that government is no stand-in for the protection of a man (or self-protection). But those kind are few and far between. Most women are like La Ragazza. They will fall into the trap. And at some point, there will be no Adso there to help them out because the Adsos of the world will no longer care for their plight.
But I must confess (Confess! Confess!) that I chuckled when that idiot woman got launched into the air by Salvatore's trap.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 10:30:20 GMT -8
The Blessing Way became available at my online library. I downloaded it last night and will give it a go. It will be interesting to compare and contrast a Leaphorn-lead novel as opposed to a Chee one.
I didn't mind the Navajo facts-and-figures or the Navajo perspective in People of Darkness. Yes, you do get a little of the "stupid white people" factor. But then again, there are plenty of stupid white people. I don't necessarily take offense at that.
That said, I'm not enamored at all by the Navajo way of life. I'm not anti-Indian. Nor am I reacting out of a distaste for the stupid modern white people who have romanticized the Indian Way. I'm going to assume than Hillerman is presenting the Navajos in fairly accurate way.
But I haven't seen much in the Navajo Way that makes me say, "Yeah, life would be better if I did that or thought that way." I just don't see it. The only thing that makes sense is their apparent rule that once a man marries a women (I'm not making this up), he is to maintain no contact with his mother-in-law. If the mother-in-law comes to visit the daughter, he is to make himself scare.
That is a Navajo custom that seems to have some sense to it. So I'll keep an open mind about some of their other beliefs and practices.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 11:38:43 GMT -8
I completely agree. I would say a fair reading of the Navajo Way is that they have cultural beliefs that keep them (or try to keep them) satisfied as a poor tribal people. Assuming they have always lived in or around the desert, that makes some sense. There is not an abundance of resources in the desert. You have to learn to live with less. That said, I do understand when the Navajo look at whites and roll their eyes at many of the things they do. We do the same thing here. It would seem that the traditional Navajo are a somewhat conservative people. How can you not turn your nose up at a people and dismiss them as idiots when their government is paying Drag Queens to groom children within the confines of a school? History is a long time. It is very apparent that our own culture is cracking up. Like I said, I have no doubt the a lot of these tribes in the modern day have become "woke" and have sold their souls (and religion) to Progressivism. If not, I would appreciate them even more. But I don't know the real story. It looks like the first novel by Hillerman was published in January 1990. And I think the stories themselves are set in the 50's or 60's. So before getting too nostalgic about the Navajos, it would be instructive to see how they are living today. A quote from Wiki suggests that there are pre-Spanish and post-Spanish Navajo in terms of how the lived: Whatever the influence of the Spanish, the Navajo have been around a while. As our culture cracks up, can we really cast stones in our glass house? And this is with zero romanticizing of the "Native American" – you know, the one who thinks they are in complete harmony with nature, wouldn't hurt a fly, and whose writing were actually the foundation of the American Constitution, etc., etc.
And we used to plow the ignorant savages with alcohol and throw them on reservations. Now those reservations plow ignorant whites with casinos and fleece them of their money.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 12:14:16 GMT -8
It's interesting to contrast the desert-living Navajo with the tribes of the Northwest. Resources are abundant in the Northwest. It was pretty easy to make a living. Fish, crustaceans, and game were abundant. The weather was relative mild. Transportation (via the water) was easy.
And without making any value judgment, I believe they more or less maintained what we would consider a fairly primitive tribal life for centuries. They made little or no progress in terms of how we judge progress.
So there are indeed two very different modes of life we are talking about. I would say both have their strengths and weaknesses.
The libtards have dishonestly romanticized all of what they see as the good stuff (living non-destructively with nature, for example) and make a fetish of these virtues...all while living a completely and thoroughly Western/consumer way of life. But they eat granola and maybe go to some libtard made-for-whites chant once a month and believe they are "saving the earth" and "living in harmony with nature"...while driving electric cars which take an enormous material toll on the environment.
And it's not that we couldn't learn some things from the Navajo. But one of those things is "Making due with less" and perhaps even "Appreciating what you've got" as well as the value of personal virtue. Those are ideas merely played at by relatively well-off libtards who can fantasize about living a "natural" sort of life...so long as it doesn't in any way interfere with their modern luxuries that make up the other 99.5% of how they live.
Cynical? You bet. I have reason to be.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 13:11:44 GMT -8
I read a good book on what I think was the Plymouth colony. I'm pretty sure it was Nathaniel Philbrick's Mayflower. The standard story is that those nasty white people exploited the pure, peaceful, one-with-nature Native Americans. What those first colonists ran into was Indians tribes desperate to ally with the white man in order to protect themselves from hostile neighbors.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 30, 2022 15:59:38 GMT -8
This is the type of person promoting rubbish history. Think maybe she is just trying to sell books? Indians were true gentlemen Have a look at her books. Very realistic, no? I am always amazed people read such trash, but after the display of stupidity (driven by women) during the KFF fraud, little surprises me.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 17:19:23 GMT -8
I've just started the last episode of The Name of the Rose. I think this could have been pared down to six episodes. But what it is is quality.
I also started The Blessing Way (only a few pages). So far, so good.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 17:31:31 GMT -8
I think you are coming around to my point of view. Heaven help us.
I have zero problem with a romantic (and romanticized) novel about Native Americans. What is a good story but creating some unrealistic character out of thin air with a plot to match? Few would want to read stories of normal life. ("I watched a little football and then sat down for some pizza. The lawn needed mowing but it was raining. The wife went to the mall.")
But this person's comments were political comments. Anyone who believes most Indians were gentlemen (outside of idealized romance novels) is spreading lies. The reality is messier and more complicated.
But I'm not sure that a person like this can separate reality from what she simply demands to believe. That makes her idealizations not charming but fascist.
I think there are good things we can learn from other cultures, including Indian culture. And there will be bad things we can learn about those same cultures. Same with our culture. Good and bad.
One of the quotes from The Blessing Way as posted on Amazon is:
Whether true or false, that's not necessarily something to brag about. For centuries, there was no Western (or Eastern) word for "zero" because they didn't have the idea in their mathematics. But you'd have to be a real ignoramus to brag about that now. "We Western Whites had no concept of zero."
And I'm not buying that Navajos didn't hurry. I bet they hurried about certain things that were important to them. It's just human nature. And if you have no word for time, how the hell do you coordinate with others to get anything done? The answer seems to be, this is one of the means that you remain a backward (by Western standards) tribal culture.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 17:40:15 GMT -8
Here's another preposterous quote from The Blessing Way:
"Desert" is a climatic description, not a value judgment. That said, if you've seen a tropical or temperate region where water and plant life flourish, you have every right to call out a desert as relatively barren.
And what person that you know looks at a desert and says it is ugly? They are indeed often very beautiful in their own way.
So this trait of stuffing these fortune-cookie pseudo-spiritual comments into the mouths of Native Americans and pretending they are profound is obnoxious.
I would certainly expect a Navajo to find much beauty in the desert. I also suspect he understands the hardships of living on a barren land. Being beautiful does not necessarily mean preferable. Sometimes you live where you live because that's where you've always lived. And it's more than okay to appreciate it and think it is beautiful.
But dispense with the dime-store philosophy about "the white man sees only desolation." Have you seen some of those mega retirement communities that have been built in Arizona? The white man loves the desert...perhaps provided there is a golf course within walking distance.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 30, 2022 19:58:03 GMT -8
I don't think I've ever seen that one. They have it on The Roku Channel. I'm watching it now.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 31, 2022 4:45:37 GMT -8
And I'm not buying that Navajos didn't hurry. I bet they hurried about certain things that were important to them. I challenge anyone to find a nomadic people who have the western concept of time. Organization based on the sun for common purpose yes, but that can be hours on either side of the clock. It is only when man moves into cities and requires better organization and specialization of tasks that time becomes more important.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 31, 2022 4:51:09 GMT -8
The Blessing Way was published in 1970 Hillerman was very popular in mass market paperback in the 70s. I recall he had 4 or 5 books on the back list by 1980.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 31, 2022 7:26:42 GMT -8
I don't doubt that man has usually lived without hours and minutes. What I doubted was this romantic version of the Navajo that they never hurry. I bet when some dude is making an assignation with his mistress while her husband is away, he may indeed hurry on over to her place.
Also, my point was that it was a romantic libtard modern notion to get all warm and fuzzy over the Navajos (or anyone) not having a strong concept of time. I don't particularly see that sort of ignorance as something to be proud of. It's understandable that ancient man didn't have a pocket watch at his disposal. But certainly astrologically (if only by the sun and moon), the idea of cycles (time) was there. It was just not as minute as the minute and hour.
It is a libtard notion to glamorize the ways of the Native Americans. "Oh, isn't it wonderful that they had no word for time? We live in such a rushed culture." And I would completely agree that we live in a hurried and harried culture and that we could learn something from the Navajo about how to chill out.
But the thing is, this is only an affection – internal virtue-signaling, if you will. The Western get-ahead consumerist lifestyle is so ingrained – the need to keep up with the Joneses so powerful – that all that 99.9% of people will only ever do is post those nice Navajo sayings on Facebook. But to live by them? Not going to happen for most. That would require doing without. And that concept is verboten.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 31, 2022 7:46:58 GMT -8
And a further point about the idiot woman who thinks all Indians are gentlemen:
If you hold such views, you don't really know your subject. You are simply treating him like a token. You are not giving him respect.
In these books by Hillerman, there are some Navajo doing some bad things. In the start of The Blessing Way, Leaphorn has in his "stack of stuff" the task of finding the Navajo who stabbed someone in some kind of bar fight. He's hiding out in the hills somewhere near his clan.
I don't know to what extent Hillerman has glamorized or sanitized the Navajo (and I certainly think he probably tries to show them mostly in a good light), he doesn't pretend as if the Navajo are living sinless lives.
I'm 25% into The Blessing Way, and so far so good. Leaphorn doesn't seem to have any real pronounced personality. But maybe most Navajo are laid back. Maybe most don't have the propensity to be a Drag Queen. I don't know.
But from Hillerman's plot in this one, it would seem that the idea of witches is central to Navajo day-to-day belief. One interesting plot point is the white university guy (McKee) who has been, over the years, attempting to write some definitive book on Navajo witches. He wants to categorize them. One central type of "witch" he calls the "scapegoat witch." That means if something bad happens, people use a witch as a scapegoat explanation.
The early indication in this novel is that he may find some trouble fitting all the various witches into neat psychological or social categories as explanations. I keep wondering how the Navajo would perceive Nancy Pelosi.
Certainly there are some Catholics and Protestant for whom the idea of demons is central. And perhaps similar to this unfolding Navajo story, not all of them are easily categorized via material explanations. Could you blame some Christian for thinking a bizarre, multi-colored, horn-wearing fat "Drag Queen" dancing in a sexually perverse manner doesn't have a little demon in him?
Our modern materialist view has expunged the idea of true good and evil. We no longer believe in such things. We are instead ranging into the area where we think it is bad to have such views. And we blame such views for why some people are in prison in the first place.
So I don't offhand dismiss the idea of witches and demons. I just wonder though if they are as central to the Navajo as this first book in Hillerman's series makes out.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 31, 2022 10:00:00 GMT -8
As long as white males are not involved the leftists are more than willing to overlook the barbarians at the gate, they are willing to find their customers of "peace and tranquility" over come the barbarous, of say canibalism, or torture. Yes, they might say the Aztecs, lived in peace with nature but they cut the hearts out of living people by the thousands.
There is always a "but" in leftists explanation of their philosophy. As a general rule anything said before the word but is bullshit.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 31, 2022 10:09:05 GMT -8
I bet when some dude is making an assignation with his mistress while her husband is away, he may indeed hurry on over to her place. On an individual level that would make sense, however, it takes a great amount of organization to build a culture and that is based on a more commonly accepted form of time keeping. That only come from cities and commerce. The first sundials were invented around 300 BCE. Rome takes credit for this, Pliny the elder, but I think the Greeks brought them to Rome earlier.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 31, 2022 10:24:55 GMT -8
That sounds like a rule we can add to the Undeniable Facts of Life!
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