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Cults
Jul 1, 2019 17:53:44 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jul 1, 2019 17:53:44 GMT -8
Cults and Extreme Belief
2018 A & E Television Series
Amazon Prime
This series is hosted by Elizabeth Vargas. She is billed as an investigative journalist for A&E network, ABC 20/20 and ABC news anchor on World News Tonight. The series examines seven cults, and what is referred to as extreme belief; NXIVM, Jehovah’s Witness, Children of G-d, U.N.O.I (united nation of Islam), World Peace Unification Sanctuary (Moonies), Twelve Tribes, an FLDS.
A quick overview of the subjects indicates that of the seven, six are superficially Christian and one is Moslem. All are either centered in the US or have a very strong American presence. The focus of the program is on sex abuse, mind control, and money. Miss Vargas interviews past members of these organizations seeking information about practices, methods, and financial obligations.
I suspect that we have all heard of most of these groups, encountered their members in public or even had family members affiliated with them. NXIVM is the most recent and notorious in recent years. Just two years ago the news broke about the branding of female members and sex slavery. The Marquis DE Sade would fit in well here and perhaps was a role model. Vargas interview of past members focuses on the sex and exploitation. The format doesn’t change much with the next six episodes except to imply that Christians are the big offenders.
What makes this interesting is not the organizations mentioned but the ones left out. The most conspicuous is the absence of any mention of Scientology. Perhaps the producers thought that enough had been done to expose it as a cult? However, the largest, most mind controlling, authoritarian and dangerous is not mentioned, 1.1 billion adherents with members in every western country and billions of dollars in operating capital is not even given a passing remark.
According to the producer’s own definition of a cult; physical and mental control, sexual abuse of women, a supreme charismatic leader, and no accountability to members. Consider the democrat political party. Ask yourself, does today’s democrat party qualify as a cult under the definition?
Islam should be counted as the largest and most influential cult on the planet. Yet, there is no mention, and we all know why. Bad mouthing Christians and Jews is ok, we may get angry, not watch the shows on the network, even pull advertising. But we will not invade the studios of A & E and behead Miss Vargas on national television. We are dealing with Troglodytes from hell and that’s just the democrats.
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Cults
Jul 1, 2019 18:39:07 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 1, 2019 18:39:07 GMT -8
My mother considered the Jehovah's Witnesses about 50 years ago, but in the end she remained an Episcopalian. I wonder if the United Nation of Islam is the same as Louis Farrakhan's Nation of Islam or an offshoot or whatever.
I have identified both Islamism and leftism as political cults. However, I don't know if Islam has any such leader at present, and of course Mohammed died well over a millennium ago. Nor does leftism have any such leader, though they keep seeking a new messiah. First it was JFK, then his brothers, then Slick Willie, and finally the Black God. (Interesting question: which of the Demagogues running this year looks like the next candidate for messiah? Pete Battigeek, perhaps?)
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Cults
Jul 1, 2019 19:35:02 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jul 1, 2019 19:35:02 GMT -8
I believe UNOI is a splinter group of Nation of Islam. Same type of program different name.
I don't think Islam need any charismatic leader inertia being what is carrying it on now. Make no mistake BO is still the default leader of the democrat party so it kind of a twofer they get a moslem at the same time.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 10:17:31 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 10:17:31 GMT -8
I’ve got this queued up and just started to watch the first episode. I’m waiting for the moment when they show these women being kidnapped, a bag thrown over their head, and whisked away to the NXIUM cult.
This first episode starts with some tearful woman. And my first thought is, “You joined the damn cult. You must have had fun for a while. And now you’re a ‘victim’ when you find out how damn stupid you’ve been. So it’s always somebody else’s fault.”
Granted. Maybe she was kidnapped and forced into the cult. I don’t know. I just started watching.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 10:29:26 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 10:29:26 GMT -8
All religions are cults to some extent. Look at the abuse Catholics are willing to take when they could end this nonsense in one weekend by withholding funds. This article by noble Catholic, George Neumayr, is shocking to read. The gaystapo is indeed in charge in many places. I can tell you only of my experience with JWs. They are very devout. They do believe in Jesus. They are usually the group (to the best of my knowledge) being abused and not the other way around. My thought regarding them is that if God exists and has specific rules for us, then we ought to live within them to the nth degree. But I find their point of view stifling even while admitting (again, from my own experience) that these are amongst the most decent people on God’s green earth. If an asteroid were coming to wipe out the earth and we had time to build a space ark with room for 30,000 people, I’d make room for lots of JWs because you wouldn’t have to worry about them being violent or moochers. You could build a society with them and you can’t say that about many groups. (Not one Leftist would be on that ark, for instance.) |
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 10:48:07 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 10:48:07 GMT -8
I'm watching this first episode and laughing my ass off. If these women would just substitute the words "Democrat Party" for "NXIUM" they'd have a lot of stuff figured out. But they don't. They joined a cult, trusted people beyond all reason, and got screwed (supposedly).
Twelve minutes into this, the worst thing anyone has to say about the leader is that he would kiss them on the lips.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 10:57:45 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 10:57:45 GMT -8
I'm watching the first episode of this while eating lunch and I'm almost ejecting food out of my mouth because I'm laughing so hard.
The designated victim chick is telling how she got recruited into the "D.O.S." group which is an offshoot of NXIUM. She said that stood for something like "Obedient sex slaves."
As some point, you have to tip you hat to the leader of these groups for finding such gullible women (who, I'll remind you, keep voting in droves for the Democrat Party). The P.T. Barnum rule goes into effect.
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 11:03:41 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jul 2, 2019 11:03:41 GMT -8
Your reaction to the Jehovah's Witnesses seems similar to mine. Incidenally, Jehovah's Witnesses, like Seventh-Day Adventists (including the latter's offshoot, the Branch Davidians), sprang from the Millerites. The Millerites were a millennial cult who were embarrassed when the world didn't end on their predicted day. They learned not to name a specific date after that, which is why I compare many enviro-zealots to them.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 11:08:04 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 11:08:04 GMT -8
The chicks (and guys) are a bunch of liberals (and beta males) looking for Utopian emotional fulfillment and are disappointed that someone took advantage of them (that is, they are disappointed that paying someone $2000 for a ‘seminar’ did not permanently solve all of life’s problems).
Well, boo hoo.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 11:38:32 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 11:38:32 GMT -8
Interesting factoid.
My statements about JWs it goes without saying is free from the smarmy cloud of virtue-signaling. My best friend growing up was (and still is…just saw him this morning) a JW. I also do some printing for JWs. I wish there were a lot more JWs. For every JW I would send 100 moochers across the border (although, to the best of my knowledge, JWs are soft on immigration enforcement).
They’re persecuted by Putin. How can you not then defend them? They don’t celebrate Christmas, so as a sort of anti-commercialite, I get that. They don’t (as far as I know) vote either, at least the JWs I know.
What they do is work hard at an honest living, have good families, and believe in love and peace. I could never wrap myself up in so many laws and stuff, but they do.
What I find enormously amusing is all these bitchy women (and beta males) in this program complaining about the NXIUM cult when most likely they belong to the largest one in America: the Democrat Party. The similarity between the two (the Democrat Party is, at heart, a sex cult as well) is striking.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 12:11:09 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 12:11:09 GMT -8
I certainly agree with that. One gets the feeling that a "cult" is whatever hasn't fulfilled one's wishes. This one chick notes that her parents were hippies. So she ends up in a cult. And she was very successful at it, signing up thousands of people.
And maybe the cult leader is a creep. But it's sure taking this program a long time to get there. That suggests there's little more too it but hurt feelings. But they were fine with the little Utopian party as long as it served their purposes.
Yeah, I'll bash heads in regards to forcing children into something like this. But this chick was twenty-one. And she seems not so much hating cults, per se, but the fact that a man got the best of her. Basically her cult of victimhood trumps the cult of whatever-the-hell she was in and doing.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 12:23:40 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 12:23:40 GMT -8
I lasted 20 minutes into the first episode before I had to give it up. Yeah, they talked about naked paddling and branding. But even these attractions couldn't hold my attention.
Fast-forwarding to the end of this, I guess the leader went to jail. I'm not sure on what charges. Wiki says it was "sex trafficking." But I'm not sure that it was "trafficking" as much it was gullible women blowing right through a red light.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 12:33:23 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 12:33:23 GMT -8
Things to note about Reviews&Things:
+ There is no system of rewards for sheer diarrhea of the mouth (as many sites do). No leveling-up for sheer verbosity.
+ There is no rating system for posts. There is a “like” which I’m content with as a way just to save space. To post “I like that” gets repetitive. This is thus a space-saver.
+ But there are no stars underneath anyone’s name. No fake General Pattons (as Mr. Kung characterized it). I had to strip those stars off because they came by default.
+ I’m fine with avatars. We should have some kind of face and not be faceless. But I’m dead set against the cult-of-signatures. I’ve been to many forums where people’s signatures (all the content and graphics that are included automatically when anyone posts even so much as a single word) are so large and pervasive, you can use three feet of vertical space just by two people saying hello to each other.
+ There is a feature to “follow” people here. That’s there by default. I actually saw a plugin that eliminates that. The motivation being that some find it creepy to be “followed.” I think its harmless the way it’s being used so far, but I appreciate that sentiment.
I can guaran-damn-tee you that 99.5% of the web is not like that. Most play to the cult mindset. Most facilitate back-slapping and getting lost in the crowd. We will never do that here.
I wish I could think of many of the other cultish ways the nearly all forums are run. But most give special credit sheerly for number of posts. That makes no sense. It should be quality over quantity.
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kungfuzu
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 12:37:51 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jul 2, 2019 12:37:51 GMT -8
I grew up in a conservative denomination which didn't celebrate any religious holidays. The rationale being that the Bible calls for Christians to remember Christ always and celebrate his death and resurrection every Sunday. No other holidays are mentioned.
For us, Thanksgiving through Christmas to New Years Day was just a wonderful time of the year when people got together and kids got a few toys and/or new clothes. Jesus was only mentioned in the Christmas songs we heard throughout December.
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 12:50:59 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 12:50:59 GMT -8
I’m sympathetic to it in regards to the idea that if you’re going to say you believe these things, then live accordingly. Don’t just (as most do) play-act.
If God is real and has many specific rules (they aren’t the Ten Suggestions as they say), then this stuff is serious, crucial, and ought to be central to anyone’s life.
And as long is one is free to openly disagree with someone’s belief system without a torrent of excrement coming down on their heads, then it’s not a cult in any way that matters. I can tell a JW that I believe in celebrating Christmas and he may just smile, at best, but he will hardly go apoplectic.
Sure, some would. It’s human nature. But in many cases it’s not just a matter of countering one’s beliefs (which tends to be at least slightly distasteful to all human beings). I think the real issue is threatening to undermine their investment. And let’s make no mistake about it, 99.99% of religious worship (cult or non-cult) is about investing in the things a Deity can hand out if you follow all the right rules.
But if you say “Those rules are all made up” then you are threatening perhaps several decades of investment.
I suppose as cults go, there are worse things than naked paddling, as in the NXIUM cult. It’s better than blowing up people as the cult of Islam regularly does.
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Post by timothylane on Jul 2, 2019 13:23:10 GMT -8
Fredric Brown was a religious skeptic who admired the genuinely religious, the ones who really try to live up to what they say. ("I admire whirling dervishes." This was before devout Islam became associated with suicide bombers.)
Of course, he also did a short story in which someone proves that a skeptic believes in (or isn't certain he disbelieves in) the devil by offering a modest sum of money for the man's immortal soul to be treated as the buyer pleases. How many skeptics would accept such a deal, especially from someone they don't know well? (The Twilight Zone episode "Printer's Devil" has a scene based on that idea. Burgess Meredith played the devil.)
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 13:40:39 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 13:40:39 GMT -8
My least favorite cult (after Islam) is the Cult of Virtue Signaling.
Do you want to know how I think? No, you probably don’t. But Yours Truly will be the politest man on earth for the worthy. If some lady drops something or needs a door opened, I’m there without asking. I’m Mr. Helpful.
But I’m going down the supermarket aisle just now with a shopping cart. There’s some woman with her shopping cart right in the friggin’ middle of the aisle blocking both ways. She’s wearing a hippie-like t-shirt that says something like “Peace eternally” or “Peace expressly.” I forget the second word exactly. But the thought balloon that you could have read over my head was “If you want peace then get your god damn shopping cart out of my way.”
I am so tired of this crap.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 13:46:24 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 13:46:24 GMT -8
As they say, there are no atheists in foxholes. I assert the plain idea that existence requires a God but existence does not come with the details.
And I "Liked" your post. But please don't get it in mind that I want to engage in any nude paddling.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Cults
Jul 2, 2019 13:53:18 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 2, 2019 13:53:18 GMT -8
Mr. Kung, given what Catholics are allowing to happen, I seriously question if there ever was anything behind the whole religion other than a priesthood wanting to be a priesthood and a flock a little too willing to be fleeced. That is, post-Paul (and some notable others), are these grand churches that we have anything other than purely human constructions?
I’m not a skeptic in any usual sense. A “skeptic” is one whose only purpose is to raise himself above others. He will shout “reason” while doing the most unreasonable things.
That’s not my shtick. But I think in this day and age (as the evidence bares out) it is difficult to hold onto the idea of God in any biblical sense (Old or New Testament). Haven’t most congregations and Churches turned Jesus in Che with a Jewish background?
I don’t have an answer. I don’t think there is a clear answer readily available. And I think many people get exactly what they pay for. But I do believe there is a righteous path filled with doubt, questioning, hope, faith, and perseverance. Like I said, I wonder if post-Paul there has been much of a faith to be faithful to. Certainly not now.
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 2, 2019 14:07:22 GMT -8
I believe that from a religious point of view, Christianity started going wrong from the time Constantine made it the official religion of the empire. Once this happened, those in power had to start controlling believers, forming the Church into a government bureaucracy. Church theology had to be regularized and interpreted to compliment or at least not weaken the power of the state.
On the other hand, from a cultural point of view, I think Constantine's action was a boon for Western Civilization.
These two points do not necessarily preclude true Christianity, but they also don't necessarily make it easier. .
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