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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 11, 2019 20:15:17 GMT -8
While reading recently, I came across the following advice which sounded like it had come from Brad or that, at the very least, Brad would agree with it.
Writing has "five phases: conception, arrangement, style, memory, and delivery....A well organized essay will consist of introduction, proposition, proof, refutation, and peroration.
"Write quickly and you will never write well; write well, and you will soon write quickly."
"Clearness is the first essential, then brevity, beauty, and vigor.
"Erasure is as important as writing. Prune what is turgid, elevate what is commonplace, arrange what is disorderly, introduce rhythm where the language is harsh, modify where it is to absolute...The best method of correction is to put aside for a time what we have written, so that when we come to it again it may have an aspect of novelty, as of being another man's work; in this way we may preserve ourselves from regarding our writings with the affection that we lavish upon a newborn child."
It fact I read this in Will Durant's "Caesar and Christ" and this advice is from Quintilian, a man for whom the emperor Vespasian created a professorship of rhetoric in Rome. Quintillian was born around the year A.D. 35. Quintillian actually wrote "The oration has five phases" but I changed that to "Writing has five phases" as it flowed better for my purposes.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 12, 2019 9:03:42 GMT -8
Good stuff, Mr., Kung. At the moment I’m subscribing to Apple News+ which gives you access to several hundred digital magazines. One that I was browsing the other day is a trade magazine for writers called The Writer. In the current issue there is an article by Bonnie Hearn Hill (nearly all writers now are women…men have been expunged from the university and spend their time playing video games). It’s a bit wordy and dramatic, but I think she has some good advice. I read her thoughts and it was often “mea culpa” for me. But part of good writing is being willing to look at one’s faults instead of sticking one’s head in the sand. How can you clearly write about any subject if your mind remains in a cloud of denial, affectation, and hubris? I’m not sure about the phases and formulas. But I think Bonnie captures an important element: That is consistent with what I believe about anything. I can train to be a sprinter. I can work out. I can follow all the rules regarding nutrition and legal supplements. But at the end of the day, I’m not likely to break the record for the 100 meter dash. But then I don’t know that beforehand. Nobody does. Nobody knows the depth of their inborn talent until they train. And the same with writing. I don’t expect I will ever be Thoreau, Twain, or Hawthorne. But then none of these people became who they were simply by rolling out of bed. They worked at it. I dabble at it. And that’s what Bonnie’s article made clear. If you want to go further with it, one must go further with it. But then there is nothing wrong with motivated amateurs. A relatively few can make their living at writing. In the area of politics, no one can make a good living (or only a scant few) by telling the truth. It’s all fiction of another sort. And one thing I learned at StubbornThings is that many people want to play at being writers without doing the hard work. Their priority is to have their ego satisfied. But real writers (although they certainly do want to be liked and to be read) are motivated by something other than just vanity. In the realm of book or TV reviews, the goal should be to communicate clearly. That takes practice. And I rarely will offer a review without reading other reviews first. That’s a great way to see if you’ve missed anything. But it’s also a good way to form your own thoughts. And if I do find an insightful comment from another, I never steal it. I always quote it. I have no interest in being Joe Biden. Clarity. Brevity. And have a point. I think most writing suffers because it’s often little more than mental masturbation. We live in an era where “expressing yourself” is all the rage. But if I fart in an elevator, I’m certainly expressing myself. But there is more to good writing than just vomiting out whatever happens to be in your mind at the time — at least if one wants to interest others in what you’re writing. And that last paragraph right there — directly above us — is a bridge too far for many. The tools, techniques, and formulas can all be useful. But I think getting outside the confines of one’s own head is where good writing starts. Good writing is always a description or astute observation. And that is hard to do if you can’t be almost cruelly objective, especially to yourself. When writing becomes little more than ego-boost then it is dull and uninteresting — accept to the person who wrote it. And because all they’re in it for is ego, they never notice this fact. That’s not to say that writers can’t be flamboyant, egotistical, and self-centered. But then not everyone is Hemingway (or wants to be). There is no formula for a great novel. And many great novels are one-hit-wonders. Not even the authors know how they were produced. Kismet seems to be a factor. But in everyday writing, I think it pays to try to get outside of one’s head and especially to take into account the potential reader. Is one mental masturbating or trying to communicate clearly something that could be of use to another?
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Post by timothylane on Jul 12, 2019 9:48:31 GMT -8
"How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice, practice, practice." I've definitely read advice from actual writers that you have to do a LOT of writing before you become good at it. In essence, great writers are people for whom writing is their life. Even if they have a day job to pay the bills until their writing does it (if it ever does).
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 14, 2019 11:10:35 GMT -8
Will Durant's history of Rome, "Caesar and Christ" is full of wonderful information. I found the following quote, which is attributed to Cato the Elder, something else which Brad might have considered, particularly the last sentence. It would appear to be happening.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 14, 2019 12:21:51 GMT -8
To continue with my lessons regarding the low opinion in which actors have been held throughout the ages, let me quote further from Will Durant's "Caesar and Christ." Durant is discussing the stage in imperial times. The mime alone admitted women as actors; and as these were thereby automatically classed as prostitutes, they had nothing to lose by obscenity. On special occasions like the Floralia (a religious festival) the audience called upon these performers to remove every garment. Bother sexes attended these performances, as in our time.
And I couldn't help but think of Ross Perot when I read the following about the great Roman engineer Sextus Julius Frontinus, who clearly thought the aqueduct a much greater work than the Pyramids.
We sense here the frankly utilitarian Roman with little taste for beauty apart from use; we can understand him and admit that a city should have clean water before it has Parthenons. Through these artless books we perceive that even in the age of the despots there were Romans of the old type, men of ability and integrity, conscientious administrators who made the Empire prosper under the lords of misrule and opened a way for monarchy's golden age.
I am amazed at the parallels between our times, and the collapse of the Roman Republic and subsequent development of the Empire.
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Post by timothylane on Jul 14, 2019 13:12:12 GMT -8
Similarities between Rome and America have been frequent (a fellow student came up with one in high school). John Maddox Roberts used that sort of as the basis for his SPQR series of Roman mysteries featuring Decius Metellus, and Pat Frank had a character make a similar observation in Alas, Babylon. There certainly was a great deal of degeneracy at time, and some political similarities too (including the steady debasement of the currency).
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Post by artraveler on Jul 14, 2019 14:07:52 GMT -8
The Roman republic fell to tyranny about 300 years after it was formed. I wonder if we can keep our republic as long? The forces tearing at the structure are indeed large, well organized and dedicated. Will a modern day Caesar, Augustus, or Nero be in our future?
At times I despair for the future, so much of what we were have been is cast aside and when I look at places like California that has receded into a third-world quasi-serfdom it seems there is no hope for the future and no hope for the world.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 14, 2019 16:43:09 GMT -8
What has happened, in essence, is that women have consumed some good ideas (equality under the law) but are unaware that a Marxist tapeworm parasite was consumed at the same time. This is why they are absolutely powerless in the face of men competing as women.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 14, 2019 17:49:21 GMT -8
This is why they are absolutely powerless in the face of men competing as women.
We were talking about this at the doughnut shop this morning. A friend was saying how Title IX sports were being killed because males were competing as females and stomping their feminine competition. He thought something should be done about it, like pushing the males out.
While I would normally agree, I said that I think the times we live in call for drastic measures so we should do nothing about it and let the females figure out things for themselves. Only then might they return to a semblance of sanity. True sanity might be too much to expect.
Like Churchill, I am amazed at humanity's inability to learn. But I have come to the conclusion that the only way most people learn is through pain. So perhaps the destruction of female sports in public schools and universities will prove to be therapeutic for those silly people who seem to believe that males and females are just alike.
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Post by timothylane on Jul 14, 2019 19:27:32 GMT -8
I believe it was Lincoln who pointed out that sometimes the best way to get rid of a bad law (or custom) is to enforce it rigorously. This presupposes that people are more concerned with results than with ideology, so I'm not sure if this can work with leftist ideologues. But those really aren't very numerous, despite being influential far beyond their numbers, so perhaps that would work.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 15, 2019 8:01:55 GMT -8
I’m sure being your friend he was a man of thoughtfulness. Still, I don’t think these issues now are being resolved through logic or coherent philosophy. The active factor is the The Bullies of the Stalinesque Left who make it a reflexive action for people to go along with the latest nonsense because they want to avoid the shit-storm of countering it.
The bullies are winning and logic and careful argument have almost zero to do with resolving this situation. So, yeah, in a sense he is right that the males should be pushed out. No question about that. Just push. Fight. Oppose.
On the other hand, those who have grown tired of female victimology (such as myself) have zero sympathy for this battle. Let them sow what they have reaped.
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