Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 5, 2019 20:25:35 GMT -8
I finished episode one and will go onto episode two tomorrow.
So far, I’m underwhelmed. If one’s toes tingle because one is so super-duper bowled over by the fact that there is a man-woman in a leading TV role, then I can’t help you. You’re going to love this no matter how bad the plot and the other characters are.
Episode one is setting up a whole bunch of stuff: time, place, characters, etc. I won’t hold it to an unreasonably high standard regarding the plot. But most of the characters are fairly lame. They don’t look like old pros in regards to doing period pieces. It’s all too melodramatic and over-acted…except for that one glimpse of the young man who gave the toy soldier to the child. That felt like the first real moment in the entire episode.
Pretense reigns so far. And although I think I could come to find the man-woman character interesting, she’s far from likable….so far. Again, if one gets the vapors just seeing one’s Progressive dogma ratified in a series with a man-woman leading character who fingers other women, then I can’t help you. I’m not talking to you. You are the kind of person who is the bane of good programming. All you need is a few of your conceits flattered and you think a turd is golden.
I’m not calling this a turd. I’m just saying that it’s attempting to fly high on the fumes of lesbianism and little else. I’m not yet particularly impressed with the performance or Suranne Jones either. This series certainly could gel into something with the insertion of a story relying on more than this constant sense of astonishment we are supposed to have by seeing this woman act like a man (and better than most) in a man’s world. This will get old fast though if that’s all they have.
And the music sucks. Yes, I know I know. It’s actually “hip” and “with it.” But it’s too in-your-face. It’s questionable whether it’s a good thing that the main character occasionally breaks the fourth wall. But I think it was a bad choice to constantly jar us out of the early 19th century with some throw-away contemporary music. A little here and there, fine. But they bash you over the head with it.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 7, 2019 9:28:30 GMT -8
Episode 2 has started stronger. There’s a good conversation between the man-woman and the 29-nine-year-old nubile who is infatuated with Anne. The semi-seduction of Ann by Anne is an interesting scene.
Men will be hard-pressed to watch this show without being psychologically castrated. But I will press on.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 7, 2019 11:38:29 GMT -8
The plot is thickening which is what this show needed. Also, Anne has a nice scene with the child who had that accident in the opening. That’s the first time he had talked so his parents were thrilled that man-woman made a personal appearance at their home.
This is sort of Anne of Green Gables with testilcles.
And there are qualities, slowly emerging — in both the character and the acting — in man-woman's fussbudget little sister.
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Post by artraveler on Sept 7, 2019 12:28:56 GMT -8
This show is in some ways a comment on the disappearance of defined male female roles in our society. In later episodes Anne Lister if forced into a more female role and she has obvious discomfort mixed with relief of her masculine attitude. The birthday party with the Queen of Denmark is illustrative.
The Georgians and the Victorians had defined male female roles Anne defies the imposed roles. Her dress with flock coat and top hat is altogether male. And never dressing in anything but mourning black is an exception to the rule even for widows in the 19th century.Her lovers are decidedly female in dress and comportment. Today we are confronted with men who claim to be women just to compete in sports and women who desire to be men in professions that require skills which men are better adapted, specifically military.
It seems to me that, "what women want" are men who are comfortable being men and women who are comfortable being women. It doesn't mean that defying traditional roles are forbidden to either gender on and individual basis, but as a cultural norm lead to confusion. A woman like Anne Lister is unlikely to exist in today's culture. In spite of her obvious sexual preference she doesn't fir the paradigm of the ABCQXTHBMOESW design.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 7, 2019 12:51:11 GMT -8
I wonder if “dowdy” is the better word for the little sister?
Oh, without a doubt. I’m not blind to the fact the ideas of feminine and masculine are to a large extent defined by the habits of culture. Where the Left has gone off the rails is to say that sex is entirely a matter of conventions.
But anyone who has lived anything but a completely sheltered life will have run across quite rough-and-tumble women (aka “tomboys”) and men who are so feminine that they are likely not affecting their daintiness as I think has become the “habit of culture” amongst homosexuals. In many ways, today's Progressive sexual roles are just as smothering, if not more so, than in the Victorian age.
It’s similar to the constraints put on blacks. You’re not “authentic” unless you think exactly a certain way.
What we can say about Anne Lister is that she is not iconoclastic just for the sake of doing so. She is not bending gender because she’s bored with her own life or is aping what some assholes are doing on Facebook or YouTube. She is, in any reasonable sense of the word, being an individualist. And I certainly don’t get the sense that she is breaking barriers just to topple existing structures as is all the rage these days.
One could respect an authentic Anne Lister for the plain and simple fact of being an individual, not a sheep. This is the kind of respect for “diversity” the is completely missing from the groupthink assholes who lay claim to the word.
But the hat she wears is still a little much. And, yes, there is a certainly an amount of gleeful defiance in Anne. But I think that’s simply icing on the cake for I do think the filling of her cake is authentic tomboy.
And for whatever it’s worthy, I like her taste in women.
That’s very well said.
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Post by artraveler on Sept 7, 2019 13:49:16 GMT -8
She is, in any reasonable sense of the word, being an individualist. And I certainly don’t get the sense that she is breaking barriers just to topple existing structures as is all the rage these days. Gemma Whelen is the little sister, AKA Yara Greyjoy in Game of Thrones . Yara was at best bisexual and possibly lesbian in the series. How's that for casting? BTW what kind of English name is Gemma, there are two people with that name in the series? Gemma Jones is aunt Ann Lister I think it was much easier to be homosexual 200 years ago than today, although the potential punishments were more extreme. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 7, 2019 20:32:29 GMT -8
Gemma. Good name. But uncommon. Interesting coincidence.
I got the rabble upset one time on Facebook when I used a quip I had heard often from my brother: “Women are two or three glasses of wine away from a lesbian experience.” Boy, that didn’t go over well. But me doth think they did protest too much.
I have no problem with a strong woman, even a ball-busting strong woman. What I have a problem with is the stifling modern stereotype that women must forever and always be told they are just as good and strong as men at everything.
Interestingly, they fall apart like Snowflakes if you don’t stroke their conceits about that — somehow then proving that women are emotionally as strong as men. You have to look hard to find the logic in that, but they seem to think it’s there.
There is no honest discussion of homosexuality in this culture. Whether this series gives a glimpse beyond modern gender-bending stereotypes, I’m not ready to come to a conclusion on that. I’ve yet to gauge the level of virtue signaling in this.
But I wouldn’t doubt for a second that 200 years ago it was easier to be a homosexual. What we have now are homosexual fascists obeying the most bigoted rules of the racist of days gone past. For instance, they are proponents of the “one drop” rule. If you even praise Rock Hudson for something, you must be a closet homosexual. One drop. If you slapped your running back on the butt after scoring the game-winning touchdown, you are a closet homosexual. It defines you completely. One drop. No matter that 99.99999% of your behavior has been heterosexual.
I despise the modern queer movement. They are a stifling movement. But I can admire the iconoclast and rebel of old. Look at the abuse this lady takes. And she runs for no safe space. Instead, she gives as good as she gets. This is not a modern faux social justice warrior: warrior on the outside but a cry-baby fascist on the inside.
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Post by timothylane on Sept 7, 2019 21:06:45 GMT -8
Oh, my. I like Hudson in a number of movies. For that matter, he was hardly the only homosexual or bisexual entertainer. Someone once suggested having Liberace as a villain on The Wild West, including a scene in which he put an oil lantern on a player piano. It wasn't done because he was homosexual, and so was producer Bruce Lansbury, and CBS didn't want to hint at it. Pity.
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Post by artraveler on Sept 7, 2019 22:03:08 GMT -8
There is no honest discussion of homosexuality in this culture. Whether this series gives a glimpse beyond modern gender-bending stereotypes, I’m not ready to come to a conclusion on that. I’ve yet to gauge the level of virtue signaling in this. I think it is because homosexuality has become a badge that is worn to demonstrate how "woke" you are with all things modern. Much like being a hippie in the 60s you have to wear the clothes, dance the dance, sing the songs, and after all that, many I think most, of whom same sex relationships are just a flirtation will wander back into heterosexual relationships and try to forget when they were, for a short time, gay. The time will come, in the not to distant future, when being gay is just not as much as anti-establishment as it has been for the last 10 years or so. That will be good news for the culture, good news for men, good news for women and even better news for homosexuals. |
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Post by timothylane on Sept 8, 2019 6:09:41 GMT -8
Actually, homosexuality already is no longer anti-Establishment because the Establishment is now the revolutionary left. But it is still anti-conservative, which is a good stance for a revolutionary. Note that there are conservative homosexuals. They won't slip back because they're genuine homosexuals or bisexuals, not revolutionaries putting it to the Man.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 8, 2019 8:01:52 GMT -8
One of the difficulties involved is in regards as to whether to treat Anne Lister as a character or a movement. The Left’s politicizing of everything can leave one jaded and that must be guarded against in regards to giving a series like this a fair review. Is I often quip, Artler, I don’t know how much of “homosexuality” is truly a “lifestyle choice” (a product of following fads, not cravings) and how much is some deep, in-built way to reject feminism (which I would applaud, every strange step of the way). Oh….and the third choice (a real one for many, I presume) is that they are either born or warped into being that way. Speaking of hippies, I think their eternal search for a Therapeutic Utopia — in drugs, sex, music, and whatever — is behind what I see as a wimpy Snowflake culture. When I say “You go, girl” in regards to Anne Lister (to the extent that I do), it’s because she is not namby-pamby. There are so many namby-pamby men these days, how can one help but be attracted to Trump in a black dress and a black hat? There is one scene where she is throwing a fit about something. She catches herself and says “I’m too old for this.” She’s not “woke.” She’s grown up. (Love this quote from this article: She has a PhD in Comparative Literature and Cultural Studies from Yale, where women learn, partly through female groupthink, that anything negative in life is a matter of victimization, for which men are usually to blame.) One of the clear successes of this series so far is giving a more detailed idea of the various things involved in running an estate. There were tenants to deal with, resources (coal, in this case) to make use of, other aristocratic sharks to deal with, idiot family members to suffer, general repairs and improvements to make, etc. I hope this aspect continues. There’s an interesting scene where Anne confronts one of her tenants who is trying to do some work while drunk. I don’t know if they were doing their own work or a specific job for Anne, but she told the guy to take the day off and then come see her when he was sober. A near fatal fight then occurred within the family while trying to restrain this louse. They finally had to tie him up with rope. Put him in the category of “mean drunk.” |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 8, 2019 9:05:02 GMT -8
The act of putting penis in anus seems more a politic statement these days than a sexual one. However, I find it highly unlikely that homosexuality will become so blasé that it’s rejected. Quoting that article again: And… Homosexuality — to the extent it’s not hard-wired — is an expression of “personal fulfillment” which is the organizing principle of today’s society. Whether it’s cultural or counter-cultural in the political sense is likely secondary to the fact that it is the further chasing and atomization of “personal fulfillment.” |
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Post by timothylane on Sept 8, 2019 9:35:49 GMT -8
One might note similarly that lesbianism is often a form of political or emotional statement, springing from hatred of men more than sexual love of women. This is why so many lesbians have had abusive relationships with men in their past. (A good fictional example is Pussy Galore in the novel Goldfinger. "In the South, a virgin is defined as a girl who can outrun her uncle. In my case it was my brother I couldn't outrun.")
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 9, 2019 7:39:45 GMT -8
Wow, I never knew that Pussy Galore had that background.
I’m 4-1/2 episodes into “Gentleman Jack.” For an example of LGBQTYSS cinema, it’s a nice piece of Masterpiece Theatre-esque agitprop. That is, if all it takes to be entertained is to have straight white males being bested or ordered about by a lesbian female, what’s not to like? And I say this in the context of those awful string of Marvel comic movies. The SS crowd (I’ll shorten the acronym…stands for “subversive sexuals”) — at least the male constituency — has historically had good taste. And this is a well-made historical drama from that perspective. A stupid Marvel comic book movie this is not.
But it is a bit thin in content. Again, that’s nothing specific to SS agitprop. Most series like these are enormously expensive to film. So they have to stretch it out, thus we get all the scenes of Anne Lister walking briskly about with her aggressively-swinging arms. That doesn’t cost much. And we get a lot of kissing and bed scenes. But they are not, as Artler pointed out, particularly explicate.
And although the SS crowed probably can’t get enough of those bed and kissing scenes, the series is started to wear thin for the normal viewer. There are four story-lines going in the series at the moment:
• the lesbian seduction/relationship
• the rig accident
• the coal seams
• the drunken pig farmer
We can add in the corrupt minister whose wife died and he tries to force himself on the congenitally weak-willed Ann Walker. But that seems to be resolved. We can also add Anne’s little sister’s threat to get married and have a son. They don’t explain very well how this threatens Anne. But it could be the estate has to go to the first male child available.
Anne Lister is not a particularly likable heroine — unless, of course, you’re a soldier in the SS forces (sexual subversives, remember). Then every action by Anne is golden. But in the way she seduces Ann Walker, she’s got a bit of Harvey Weinstein in her. She doesn’t physically force herself on her, but probably neither did Weinstein physically force himself on most of the women.
Clearly Ann Walker is a vulnerable woman in need of guidance. She gets that from Anne Lister who then does what she can to steer Ann Walker’s gratitude, even a sisterly love, to the wild world of lesbo action. As many around her say, you can’t trust Anne Lister around women.
In this regard, she has the innate sexual predator instincts of the typical male. Their job is to seduce, truth be damned. In one of the scenes when Anne and Ann are finally getting hot and heavy (and Ann isn’t quite sure she should be doing this), she asks Anne if she had over done this before. Anne Lister replies, “Of course not.” Of course, the series has been full of scenes of Anne’s other lesbo lovers.
Normally in a series such as this, the viewer will be slightly on pins and needles, hoping the bad guys don’t win over the hero (or heroine). In this case, I could care less if her arch enemies, the Rawsons, get the best of her. There’s nothing wrong with having a morally dubious hero, per se. But Anne Lister’s character is lacking charm even in moments of triumph. It’s hard to care for her and certainly her appearance and manner become grating after a while — or right at the start, actually.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 9, 2019 8:26:20 GMT -8
Spoiler alert. But regarding the drunken pig farmer, if you’re going to feed your father to the pigs as a way of disposing the body, wouldn’t you sift a little through the mud to make sure there were no incriminating remains? That’s the first thing I’d do and I’d be obsessive about it.
But the mother just happens to see a big metal belt buckle sitting in the mud one day inside the pig stye. The son’s story of his father running off to America is getting thinner and thinner.
But because this series presumably is based on Anne Lister’s diaries, maybe that’s how it happened. For what it’s worth, it was a little harsh disposing of the father, but it was clearly an act of self-defense. The guy had to go. I’d want none of that bacon though.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 9, 2019 9:09:22 GMT -8
On the positive side, Anne Lister did get a well-deserved thrashing from someone who warned her to stay away from Miss Walker. This was just after a rather good 10-minute scene with Anne and Ann at Ann’s house. Ann had a visitor with her at the time who was there to help her convalesce (fake illness, I think). Sophie Rundle, as Ann Walker, does the best work in the series so far in that scene. She is weak-willed and has been easily manipulated by Anne. But Ann has had a warning from her friend about Anne. Word is getting out. Ann starts to face the reality of what the relationship with Anne means and the costs that would come with it. So Ann is now wanting to escape her mental anguish by throwing herself at the corrupt minister who earlier had raped her (I guess…we don’t really know what happened….Ann is so weak-willed it’s possible she went along with it). As a viewer, I’m thinking “Run, Ann, Run. Run as fast as you can.” Whether she can extricate herself from the strong-willed Anne Lister is yet to be seen. It’s hard to imagine another actress playing the part of Ann Walker any better. She was in “Peaky Blinders” so I’ve seen her but offhand I don’t remember her.  Peaky Blinders is a violent series that is good for one season, at best. After that, it rather keeps doing the same thing over and over. |
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Post by timothylane on Sept 9, 2019 11:15:59 GMT -8
I would think someone feeding a dead body to the pigs would take off the clothes first, though this creates the problem of disposing of them. Do goats really eat that sort of stuff? Even if they do, I doubt they would eat the metal parts. A good fire could dispose of much of that.
I don't think the movie version of Goldfinger went into why Pussy Galore was a lesbian, so most people would be unaware of it. But I've read all of Fleming's novels and short stories about James Bond except The Spy Who Loved Me. The earlier movies followed the novels fairly well (especially the first 3), though there were differences in detail. (Dr. No was independent, not connected to SPECTRE. The enemy in From Russia With Love was SMERSH -- an actual organization, whose name was short for Smert Shpionam and meant "Death to Spies", though it only existed for a few years before the Bond series began -- rather than SPECTRE. Goldfinger was actually planning to rob Fort Knox, not irradiate the gold.) Starting with You Only Live Twice (which had hardly anything to do with the book but a few characters), there were often large divergences between book and movie.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 9, 2019 11:42:56 GMT -8
I was wondering about that to. In Deadwood it was standard operating procedure to dispose of bodies with the pigs. I don’t remember if they stripped them first and then burnt the clothes. Let us check the internet.
One source said to remove the hair first (for the benefit of the pigs) and the teeth (so they can’t be used for purposes of identity). Apparently about sixteen pigs will be good for a 200 pound body, including bones. They can do the job in about 8 minutes. One presumes that if bones are not a problem, any clothing (barring metal belt buckles) would not be a problem. I doubt that goats can do much with metal either, although from what I’ve heard, it’s not an exaggeration that they may indeed eat tin cans if given half a chance.
At the very least, I’ve learned some practical skills in this regard now from watching this show.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Sept 9, 2019 12:04:12 GMT -8
Excellent questions. And I’ll do you the respect and won’t pretend to have an answer. But I do think lesbianism is rooted to a large extent in hatred toward men (emotionally) and thereby (coming along like a remora) there’s also a rejection of femininity culturally. That’s because classic conceptions of femininity are rooted in pleasing men.
To me, that’s the easy part, even if it’s just idle speculation. But I think it makes sense.
As for the male aspect, I think that is rooted in the highly sexualized marketplace of male-male relationships. They are rooted almost entirely in sex so you have not just one rooster trying to impress others but two. And I think the conventional wisdom on why male homosexuals are so promiscuous is completely and clearly because we’re talking about the male of the species who is hyper-sexual to begin with. And without any restraining force (such as the natural coyness of the female…or just less interest) and you achieve some kind of bizarre critical mass when the pursuit is between two males. It’s like crossing two live wires. It gives off a lot of heat and sparks (and tends to burn things out).
I’ve never been in a gay bar and I know the culture only from afar. But from what I’ve read it would appear that there is good reason the “neatly dressed Ken & Bob” ideal is often forwarded as propaganda. And that’s because the reality is bath houses, etc. Sex sex sex. Sexual appetites beyond the belief of even normal males. And to compete in that, you’d better look good….if you want a lot of sex.
Good luck with your car. I hope you got it all fixed up.
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Post by timothylane on Sept 9, 2019 12:06:54 GMT -8
I once read that goats would lick up some sort of glue from the cans, but not actually eat the cans. But I've never looked into this. I just checked in wikipedia, and they report that goats will at least sample just about anything from plants, including paper (such as tin can labels). This presumably is wear the legends about goats come from. Leftover food would be natural for them to try. As ruminants, they can digest most of this.
Genuine male homosexuals seem to adopt many of the characteristics of women, including the tendency to ace like peacocks (which, by their name, are males -- the females are peahens). Why so many lesbians would behave that way is unclear, especially those who are primarily man-haters -- unless the idea is precisely to be unattractive to the men they don't want pursuing them.
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