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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 4, 2023 19:09:31 GMT -8
Brad,
I took the time to view the whole video and can only say it is worse than a shoddy, dishonest piece of propaganda. It would appear to be just another sophomoric social-media parody to draw eyes and elicit fear, panic and a feeling of superior virtue in a "not-so-discerning" audience. I see this as a case of "YouTubers have to make money too," the hell with fact and context.
Note the background music being played during those "duck-and-cover" scenes. It is modern electronic music, not contemporary with the films being shown. It is written to create a dark mood of nervous anticipation. Then note the repeated clips of an atomic bomb exploding. The more bangs the better. Notice also the repeated scene of soldiers in a foxhole with a bright flash followed by the boom of and explosion. Both flash and boom are, I would bet, not contemporary with the actual film.
I will give some comments in a separate post which you can use as you like. That video was a real piece of garbage.
It seems to me that there are two separate issues which need to be addressed here. 1) is the dishonesty of the video, 2) the lack of self awareness of those expressing surprise at the level of paranoia of the 1950s and 1960s. I will comment on both and you can take from my comments whatever you like.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 4, 2023 20:17:58 GMT -8
As to the video's quality.
Quote
This video is an example of why I urge people to get their basic history from written sources, not from film, TV or such videos.
One of the usual problems with such "compilations" is that they compress events, which happened over a long period of time and in a dispersed manner, into a few minutes. As a result, even a well done video misrepresents the actual level of "paranoia" or other emotion on display. This video’s faults go far beyond that. It is dishonest/manipulative. It is not informative, it is propaganda.
For the sake of brevity, I will make three observations.
The background music being played during those "duck-and-cover" scenes is added after the fact. Surely, it is modern electronic music, not contemporary with the films being shown. It was used to create a dark mood of foreboding. Thinking back, I don’t recall duck-and-cover clips having any music, but I could be wrong.
Note the repeated clips of an atomic bomb exploding. The more bangs the better to hammer in the danger near at hand. Only the little girl is missing, else it would be LBJ’s infamous “Daisy” campaign commercial.
Notice also the same scene of soldiers in a foxhole, with a bright flash followed by the boom of an explosion, being repeated many times. Why the repetition? To elicit a certain reaction. Furthermore, I am sure that neither the flash nor the boom are from the actual scene.
Perhaps, worst of all is the video' complete avoidance of any historical context.
I can’t tell whether the guy who made this video is a historical hack or needed filler for his YouTube channel.
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As to paranoia.
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I was there during the "duck-and-cover" times. I recall going through the drills in school. Neither I nor, any other kid who I knew, expressed paranoic levels of concern about duck-and-cover. In fact, being kids, some of us took advantage of the drills to act up in class.
For those expressing surprise at the “paranoia” of “those times,” understand the level of paranoia during the late 1950s and early 1960s was orders-of-magnitude less than that which we experienced during the Covid panic. Unlike government actions during the Covid panic, which are increasingly being shown to be malicious, I believe government actions during the duck-and-cover times were an example of the government not having much idea of how they might actually mitigate a nuclear strike, thus brainlessly coming up with anything to cover their helplessness and give false comfort to the public. There was no denying the danger of nuclear war, particularly after the Cuban Missile Crisis. But the country didn't shut down.
Contrast that concern with the bout of paranoia we have experienced due to a case of the flu. I think it might be best for those lecturing the world on paranoia to take a look in the mirror. They might learn something from such self-reflection.
Unquote
Use and amend as you will.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 4, 2023 20:35:51 GMT -8
I can relate. I would imaging at least half a dozen bombs were/are aimed at us within the Bremerton vacinity: PSNS (shipyard), Bangor (Trident subs), Keyport (torpedo testing and manufacturing), Manchester (fuel depot) – add in Naval Station Everett, Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, McChord Air Force Base Tacoma, Naval Magazine Indian Island, and several others I can't think of off the top of my head. There is zero chance of a lingering death as radiation slowly consumes you.
Right. For us kids it was just a game. Given the propensity for earthquakes in our area, it wasn't a totally wasted effort. Getting under a desk might not save you from a Russian nuke, but it could keep the roof off of your head.
Let's hope future generations can turn things around. But as I said, they seem ill-equipped to do so.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 4, 2023 20:46:25 GMT -8
That's pretty good. And it's not "holier than thou" nor even "pearls before swine" that is the reason I might pass on educating the dolts on YouTube. That thread is not a place where people want to understand. You said it perfectly:
Yeah...maybe it's a pearls-before-swine thing. But these videos are completely meant to give people a sense of superiority. All I have to offer is basically the equivalent of a needle to deflate their balloon. The thanks one will get would be a circular firing squad. Been there, done that.
As they say, facts are stubborn things. But people are more stubborn (and stupid). I despair for my country.
Still, if I wake up tomorrow with some gumption, who knows? I might give it a whirl. Maybe I would email Dave first and tell him that I think he's better than the junk he posted and that I am going to give an opposing viewpoint. We'll see. If I write anything I'll run it by yuze guys first to fact-check it, etc.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 6, 2023 8:29:35 GMT -8
Is it so terrible that congress can't elect a Speaker of the House?
1. The left marches in lockstep. The people who chastise the rest of us for not thinking through our actions have proven they can do nothing but sing off key, but in unison. 2. Until a speaker is elected there are no speeches on the House floor about 6 January 2021 3. Until a speaker is elected no one in congress gets paid. That includes staff and all congressmen. 4. No stupid laws will be passed. 5. Nancy is forever shut up about DJT.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 6, 2023 9:04:26 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2023 11:21:49 GMT -8
The one thing I strongly disagree with is the article's title. They are not impotent. They are complicit! People need to stop being naive' or polite. A bunch of criminal scumbags run our government. Until this is acknowledged and, to some extent, corrected the country will pick up speed in its journey to perdition.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -8
I love the fact that this fight is taking place. McCarthy and his ilk, are in the pockets of the large corporate interests, which have dove-tailed with the Left.
The Congress has not been run on "regular order" for a decade or so. I do not believe there has been a regular budget process since the financial crisis of 2008/09. They simply keep passing "continuing resolutions." This is one reason the Senate has encroached on the House's role in originating all money bills.
The leaders of both parties simply get together, decide what they want done and go into an empty House and pass bills using parliamentary tricks. The members don't actually vote.
I have watched a number of the present votes for Speaker and can say the only other times I have seen the House so full was during a president's State-of-the-Nation Address. All those clips of members making speeches are made when the chamber is empty.
In normal times, a candidate for Speaker would withdraw his name after losing several votes. McCarthy has no honor. He cannot be shamed as he has none. He is an oleaginous scoundrel. I hope this goes on for several more days.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 6, 2023 11:35:59 GMT -8
I will not make the mistake of accusing you of either. I don't know Jack Shit about Kevin McCarthy. But for some reason, both Hannity and Levin are big backers. I'm not in a position to make a judgment. But I suspect he is indeed too "establishment" when what we need are full-flooded counter-revolutionaries. One of the few people who seems to be interested in accountability is Rand Paul. He should be Speaker (going by the rule that they can elect anyone they want as speaker, and he doesn't necessarily have to be a member of the House). We need a tiger as Speaker, someone who is going to put it on his agenda to prosecute a number of bums...and, of course, stop the spending.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 6, 2023 11:43:25 GMT -8
Shades of William F. Buckley, Jr. I had to look that word up. And what you mean, of course, is he's Paul Ryan 2.0.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 6, 2023 11:44:54 GMT -8
Yes, complicit is a good wording it accurately describes almost every member of congress, democrat or republican. I have little respect for the political class. Most of them are con artists seeking to game the system for personal enrichment. We are in the unfortunate position of choosing the lesser of evils and praying for good luck. G-d has not been helpful in this task.
Our founders distrusted the idea of political faction (parties). The Federalist papers are full of their ideas of part time legislators who serve a term or two and ------go home. Remember David Crockett when he left DC. "you'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". Maybe not the best decision Crockett made but at least he was his own man.
The current congress is more like the Soviet politburo with an even higher re-election rate. Term limits may not be the best solution, but it is one that coupled with restrictions on lobbying could actually reform congress. Of no less importance, is the repeal of the 17th amendment. It is way past time senators represented the states and not be glorified congressmen.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 6, 2023 11:53:58 GMT -8
He is an oleaginous scoundrel. exaggeratedly and distastefully complimentary; obsequious: Yep that sums it up
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2023 12:01:44 GMT -8
McCarthy is complicit in the $1.7 trillion boondoogle recently passed. According to people in the room with him and McConnell (and others) McCarthy was happy to go along with it. This took away any financial leverage (or at least a good part of it) the new Congress might have been able to exercise until the end of September.
A good number of the Republicans who have been voting against McCarthy have, for months, discussing the possibility of going back to the old rules of running the House. He has been dismissive of them until the last couple of days.
The guy has been positioning himself for power since he arrived in the House in 2006. He tried to become Speaker when Boehner left, but he was so unpopular others asked Paul Ryan to run. That didn't work out well either. Even McCarthy's "mentor" in the House, Bill Thomas (retired), has come out and said that McCarthy appears to have no principles except for his own advancement, and he will say and promise anything to further his position.
I was never a Hannity fan, but stopped listening to him altogether many years ago. The guy is repetitious and I don't believe he is terribly bright. I found the intellectual level of his programs fit for Junior High School students.
I also stopped listening to Levin a couple of years back. I could no longer take his schtick. He also seems to be somewhat schizophrenic. He pushes like hell for a Convention of the States to amend the Constitution, which has never happened before and would be enormously disruptive, which I like. But he finds a process which has happened about 20 times before in our history to be too disruptive. Go figure. If anyone uses his brain, he will see the potential for disruption would be orders of magnitude larger in a Convention of the States than in an extended vote for Speaker.
Both Hannity and Levin have become part of the establishment. They are willing to continue with the same people using the same methods which have brought the country to its present point. Hannity is becoming increasingly irrelevant, as his numbers show. Levin will not be far behind if he maintains his present course.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2023 12:36:17 GMT -8
Absolutely correct. Although it can be tiring, I often try to remind people that these grandees are "all politicians" and that people need to think about that. Calling someone in business, the military or other areas of life, a "politician" is considered an insult for a reason. That is most often the crux of any political choice we must make. There might be five people in the House who would make a good speaker, but the balance would be little better except that they are probably not quite as corrupt as McCarthy and will not have been in a position of power long enough to abuse us as much as someone like McCarthy will.
Sometime almost forty years back, when Reagan and Thatcher were in office, I had a conversation with a friend in Singapore about power. It was basically along the lines of how power corrupts people. Those in power in Singapore had been in power for decades and, while I am not sure they were terribly corrupt as regards money, it was clear power had gone to their heads.
I pointed out this was one reason the US presidential term limit was so important. Nobody can hold that level of power for 8 years, much less 10 years or more and stay in touch with, or maintain any type of contact to the people, and what is actually happening in one's country. Someone who constantly has his car door opened for him, is given printed menus for his daily meals, is courted by the great and good all the time, cannot remain firmly on the ground. Keven McCarthy should be voted down on basis of this, if for no other reason.
I think he lets this be a reminder that we are not as smart as we think we are. We create our own misery even though we have the (theoretical) ability to make things better.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 6, 2023 14:06:58 GMT -8
I have no argument with any of that.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 6, 2023 15:44:18 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2023 8:50:18 GMT -8
What makes this issue of Darwinism and biology so impenetrable is that there are two interwoven elements rarely discussed (although the quote below from the above link reveals some of it):
1) The study of the cause of life and its complex and diverse biological systems 2) Atheist Fundamentalism (something that Mr. Flu has written extensively about)
Long story short, Darwinism isn't enforced as a "science" because it explains anything. It's enforced because it's a way for atheist fundamentalists to remove any idea of God from the picture. That's just how deep the rot of the materialist/reductionist view of Marxism goes.
The article linked above is interesting because it's becoming increasingly obvious to even the semi-honest researchers that Darwinism isn't working as a theory. And the remarkable fact is that more researchers are talking about this more openly than before. And that upsets the atheist fundamentalists who have a lot of emotional content locked up in the idea. And it has become an entrenched theocracy of its own type, controlling money and positions in research. Darwinism is a litmus test. If you don't believe in it (or at least say that you do), your money will dry up and your career will not advance.
That's not news for those here. The news is that this kind of talk is starting to trickle out. There is a new generation of researchers not so beholden to the atheist fundamentalist theocracy. One could say there are many folk who simply want to do science and let the conclusions go where they may – the very idea the atheist fundamentalists oppose even while they shout the mantra of "science."
That's not to say that this new breed of researchers are traditionally religious. But, ironically, biologists and other researchers have given the traditional theists more cause for their belief in an ultimate Creator rather than less. The results of research into the complex intricacies of life leave even the most jaded person stunned at what they are seeing. No one would expect something as complex as Microsoft Windows to self-assemble. But the biological systems in life are orders of magnitude more complex than that operating system.
But this is an awkward transition period (toward whatever is transitioned to). Honest researchers still speak within the reductionist/materialist/meaningless philosophical paradigm even while (sometimes) admitting that they are engaged in guesswork when they do so. The righteous atheist fundamentalist are sure that only natural selection and time are needed to explain everything. But those whose meaning-of-life isn't tied to Darwinism as an ad hoc atheist fundamentalist religion bolted onto science have other options. And some are pursuing them.
The obvious question is whether that pursuit will cause more and more to take the theory of intelligent design more seriously. Here I must speculate. I think the theory of intelligent design is legitimate but limited. Douglas Axe, via statistical analysis, has (I think) shown that it's statistically impossible for the complex proteins to have ever been arrived at by chance. But other than this, the intelligent design movement is mostly a rhetorical movement. It's a necessary and needed rebuttal of Darwinian atheist fundamentalism, for sure. But at the end of the day they are mostly booksellers selling to their own set of the faithful.
But intelligent design remains (and will remain) prominent as an alternative theory, if only because I think it is unlikely that any other cause will be discovered that accounts for life. But intelligent design itself doesn't answer enough specific questions to be particularly useful or satisfying, at least thus far. So most researchers can and will ignore it just as they increasingly ignore Darwinism as an explanation (other than as a rhetorical cover-your-ass gloss they may throw over their research). Darwinism is increasingly seen as little or no help in explaining the actual specifics of how any of the biological systems came to be.
So researches are in some kind of transition period. It's unclear to me what the immediate future will hold. The Intelligent Design movement will obviously be in an increasingly better position to sell books and give speeches. But as for explaining where life came from and how it assembled, changed, and evolved, it appears that will be an open question for some time.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 8, 2023 8:35:58 GMT -8
One wonders what motivated them to write and publish this piece. Is the tide against them becoming so strong that they realize they are beginning to look foolish and treating Darwinism like, horror of horrors, a religion?
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 8, 2023 10:25:10 GMT -8
That is a great question. Let me try to answer it with the caveat that I might be wrong but not from being dishonest. I'm too cynical about academia, the media, and science-in-general to suppose that it was intellectual integrity that motivated the article. Much of the problem today (right or left) is the lack of intellectual integrity. Most things are motivated by money, power, fame, and especially ideology. The people with intellectual integrity on the right that stand out are VDH and Dennis Prager. After that, I have to think. On the left, there are none. So I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that anyone's conscience is bothering them. But I see three possible motives, all could play a part: 1) Natural curiosity. Darwinism simply does not explain what some people have committed their careers to explaining. 2) The current generation of researchers is one or perhaps two generations removed from the founding and instigating Cardinals of New Atheism (the religion that underpins this entire discussion). Those founding Cardinals are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens. These men do not merely possess a differing philosophical view. They are mean and angry. And most of all, they are not intellectually honest. They have poisoned the "science" of Darwinism thoroughly with their fundamentalist Atheist religion. I think it's a least possible, even though those involved in biological research still likely give due deference to the overall dogma of Darwinism, that today's researchers are less committed (or not committed at all) to the kind of personal animosity toward traditional Christian religion that motivated these original founders. 3) Darwinism is becoming unworkable to the point of embarrassment. Imagine you are some university student wanting to know how the world really worked and your professors constrained you. The words are likely apocryphal, but Galileo is famous for saying "Yet it moves" in defiance of the Church's insistence on the geocentric point of view. Well, as much as Darwinists try to make themselves eternal martyrs of religious dogma, the fact is that it is their narrow-mindedness and insistence on dogma that is constraining people from seeking (or announcing) the truth (or just differing points of view).
So add "prestige" to the list of motives for the article. As the article noted, the science of biology wanted to have the same kind of overall grand unifying principle of the kind that physics already has...in order that it not be looked on as a "soft" science, as it is now in regards to having any solid overall theory for how life came to be as it is.
And as research continues and evidence is uncovered, it has become very obvious that Darwinism isn't even tangentially working as an explanation for what researchers are actually seeing. There should be a neat "tree of life" if all things neatly and gradually evolved into more and more complex forms. But no such tree exists and there is zero hope that any kind of a Darwinian tree can ever be made to work.
The fossil record itself is stubbornly set against the idea of gradual change. Even most advocates of intelligent design don’t refute that evolution happened (in the general sense of going from the simple to the complex). But how it happened is the question. And Darwinism, with it's simplistic view of a gene-centric world and gradual change, has been shown to be incomplete, if not totally unworkable. There are just so many weird and wild things going on in the real world (such as HGT...horizontal gene transfer). Other aspects are mentioned in the article. And the Cambrian explosion exists as basically a total refutation of Darwinism for those with the intellectual integrity to notice.
It's certainly also possible that intelligent design advocates have made inroads against the sclerotic dogma of Darwinism in a general way.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 8, 2023 20:33:37 GMT -8
Another aspect is the search for alternatives. And that article mentioned a couple of the alternative viewpoints...either modifications of Darwinism or something a little more radical.
But none of them have abandoned the materialist view. And I understand that. Intelligent design could be the answer (which posits an immaterial cause...intelligence), but there isn't (so far as I know) any experiment for that. It's sort of a dead-end from a completely experimental point of view. So I can understand the look for alternative biological theories that can explain all the diversity of life, not to mention it's existence in the first place.
Physics has somewhat reached the same roadblock. Granted, there is probably loads to still learn. But right now they are simply sifting through ever-finer particles of detail. When they try to dig deeper, their philosophy and metaphysics become obviously barren, and even ridiculous. Because they cannot abide by a true Big-Bang beginning to the universe, they posit an infinite number of universes...universes that can never, in principle, be detected.
Or, physicists try to get around a Big-Bang beginning by giving preeminence to quantum physics (as deep as they've gotten thus far) and stating that everything somehow emerged from a "quantum foam." This "foam" will inevitably and necessarily have all the power and creative abilities of Jehovah...it just won't go by that name (thus the inherent dishonesty of many of these physicists as they try to jam their round-peg materialism into the square-hole of reality which we do know contains the immaterial and that, from all evidence, had a beginning which strongly suggests there is more than just the material...that whatever this immaterial things is has preeminence over the material because it gave rise to it).
That is, long story short, physicists and biologists have no better ultimate theory than that presented in Genesis. You will see biologists positing all kinds of material theories to try to account for life. But it would certainly appear that all are doomed to be incomplete, if not total failures. From all appearances it would appear that life has a cause that they are not going to find under a microscope.
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