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Post by artraveler on Jan 4, 2020 10:11:04 GMT -8
Messiah
This is a ten-part Amazon Prime mini-series staring Michelle Monahan as Eva Geller. Eva is a CIA senior case officer who is tasked to discover who a reported messiah from the desert Al-Masih, Arabic for messiah, really is. The action covers the Middle East, the US (Texas) and DC.
Originally, I only watched this because I think Michelle is hot, she played Maggie Hart in True Detective, and a better than average actress. This is not for evangelical Christians, or I think any with deep committed religious views, Christian, Jew or Moslem. The show presents equally alternating depictions of Al-Masih as prophet, and fraud coming down to convincing Eva that he is a fraud. There is ample evidence of that as investigation proceeds it is discovered that Al-Masih is Iranian, his uncle that raised him and his brother was a street illusionist. Listening to his conversations he never says he is or is not a messiah. His conversations are cryptic and in the same style of Jesus talking to Pilate. “who do you say I am?” is a common phrase.
Tomer Sisley is an Israeli Shin Bet officer, Aviram Dahan, tasked to discover the past of Al-Masih. He and Eva are opponents and occasional lovers. Although, what a Shin Bet officer is doing working internationally is a stretch. Shin Bet, like FBI, is charged with domestic concerns anything outside the borders of Israel is Mossad territory.
Al-Masih ends up in a small Texas town. Somewhere in central Texas in the middle of a tornado and saves the life of the daughter of a pastor of small Baptist church that is slowly going out of business. The church is the only building in the town not destroyed by the tornado. Implying a miracle and the media circus in the US takes the story from there. Money rolls into the pastor and he gets caught up with fame.
Al-Masih meets with the President in secret and tells him he must withdraw all American forces from overseas and there will be peace if he does. The President is a Mormon, (Mitt Romney stand in?) and his advisors, deep state types, plot to get Al-Masih out of the country. They are justifiably concerned that he just might do as Al-Masih asks.
If you are familiar with the Stephen King Book and or the six-part mini-series, The Stand, that is the feeling Messiah conveys. Even the most optimistic parts are layered with a sense of impending disaster. The season ends with Aviram and Shin Bet kidnapping Al-Masih with the assistance from the deep state and flying back to Israel, where it is implied there is a cell for Al-Masih. The plane crashes, sabotaged by nefarious deep state types, and Aviram is brought back to life by Al-Masih, or was he?
The central question of the series is, how would the world react to a new messiah? Does the series answer this question? No, it does not. Will it answer this question? No, it will not. The issues of faith and eschatology for Christian, Jew and Moslem are radically different.
Assuming there is a second season the only logical conclusion is that Al-Masih is a fraud. A counterfeit prophet is worse than none at all.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 4, 2020 11:08:03 GMT -8
This is an acceptable reason. One of the attempts at logic to prove that Jesus was the Messiah is to say “Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.” Given that we see so much religious hucksterism in our own time — and that there are people who really, truly believe that Jesus (or Mary) has come to them in the shape of a cloud or a crust of bread — it seems reasonable to suppose that any Messiah (or his followers) might have more than a little P.T. Barnum in them. Taking the broad view, I don’t know if this series is a one-sided Leftist stab at faith. Do these same film makers ever take a stab at the faith of “climate change,” of the supposed sainthood of Al Gore or Barack Obama? No they do not. All the debunking is only ever one-sided. Even so, if the law of tit-for-tat (which conservatives play all too well) predominates then there is no room left for self-critiquing and we all then simply become a mindless cause. Kudos to those here who can see Trump as a useful bum but have no illusions that he is the second coming of George Washington (although the second coming of Andrew Jackson, maybe). It doesn’t shock my sensibilities in the least that Jesus could have been a Lord and that his followers were composed of a few lunatics and liars. The Kungian rule perdures: Life is complicated. Any true Messiah is going to attract a whole lot of lunatics and liars. We can politely call some of them “myth-makers” or embellishers, but that is just another word for fibbing. The logical evidence that Jesus could have been the Messiah with a Cosmic agenda was that he was so thoroughly rejected in his own time. We might not know if Jesus was the Messiah. But we can know that if Goodness personified ever set foot on this earth with the declared attribute of “I have come to serve, not be served” that he would be chewed up and spit out by corrupt and evil humanity. And that is exactly what happened. That is not proof of being Divine. But it goes in his favor. Given the established religious hucksterism, especially of the Catholic Church and their current anti-Pope, it’s a wonder that people will believe in anything these days. And when they do, it is becoming either the quasi-religious hucksterism of Greta Thunberg or the tamed and neutered (mostly by political correctness) quasi-religion where people are “lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot.” Not that we need violent zealots. But lukewarm Kumbaya is exactly what the devil would order as a way to suppress any resistance to evil. So, long story short, I would go into this series with an open mind, first hoping that it is at least entertaining. I might switch over from the Morse episode I’m watching to catch the first episode of Messiah. Morse himself is usually running a bit hot.
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Post by timothylane on Jan 4, 2020 11:11:29 GMT -8
Joel C. Rosenberg did a series on the war between the West and Islamism that involved the Tenth Imam (or at least someone claiming to be) showing up. In addition, Mike Resnick once wrote a novel (The Branch) about the Jewish messiah finally appearing -- and not being a nice guy. For that matter, Peter De Vries had something similar (but I don't recall the details) in Slouching Toward Kalamazoo.
And of course the movie series starting with The Omen led to the final showdown between the Second Coming of Christ and the Anti-Christ.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 4, 2020 11:31:40 GMT -8
it seems reasonable to suppose that any Messiah (or his followers) might have more than a little P.T. Barnum in them. I can handle the idea of frauds, but the genuine article is a different question. For over 3,000 years fraudulent messiahs have plagued the world, Jews in particular. I'm not sure that in these doubting times any messiah would not be viewed as a fraud and a huckster. Maybe that is a good thing. One of the most important chapters in literature is the Grand Inquister chapter in Dostovsky Brothers Karamazov. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_KaramazovBrothers ends the chapter with a kiss. I think the ultimate outcome for Messiah is fire.
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Post by timothylane on Jan 4, 2020 12:09:11 GMT -8
We read The Brothers Karamazov in high school in Advanced English (one teacher specialized in Classical Greek literature, including the Oedipus and Orestes trilogies and The Odyssey, one specialized in Russian literature, and one did Indian literature -- including Herman Hesse). My college English course also included the Grand Inquisitor chapter.
Of course, it isn't hard to suggest that the Inquisition was misusing Jesus Christ's religion.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 4, 2020 12:51:36 GMT -8
Artler, I found this on Netflix, not Amazon Prime.
I like one of the first scenes where CIA agent, Eva Geller, is interviewing a prospective candidate. He’s asked a question about truth. He waffles and says something like “Which truth? There are many shades to it.”
She ends the interview right then and there and tells this snowflake something like, “When you’re in the trenches facing evil, you’ll know there’s a very hard truth.”
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Post by artraveler on Jan 4, 2020 14:48:38 GMT -8
Artler, I found this on Netflix, not Amazon Prime. In staying with the content of the show. Mea Culpa.I recall that. CIA does not task senior case officers to vet recruits, so I dismissed it, but your point stands. The world is full of hard truths. Today's snowflake generation does not know how to deal with them. Just consider the faux outrage over the death of an Iranian terrorist. There are important questions everyone below the age of 30 should be asking, of themselves, and society. So far, all I see is whining about things they have no knowledge or experience. I am not advocating it, but war has a way of clarifying thinking. By the time I was 30 I had married, divorced, had three children, started a business and fought in three wars, not counting Cold War. I feel closer to my father and mother's generation than my own boomer generation and so distant from the snowflakes as to be from another planet. Think of it as Glenn Miller, Dorsey Brothers as opposed to well--anything today.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 4, 2020 15:11:00 GMT -8
I have felt the same way almost all of my life; certainly since I was a teenager.
There was a break in society around 1963-1964 when things changed drastically. I figured this out in the late 1960s-early 1970s and have seen nothing in the last 50 years to make me change my mind. Kennedy's assassination and the Beatles are the symbols of this change for me.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 4, 2020 17:32:33 GMT -8
There was a break in society around 1963-1964 when things changed drastically. That is the birth of the entitlement generation. It is not Vietnam, drugs, sex and rock n' roll, but a philosophy that the government is some how responsible for everything everyone feels. My son's mother would have a Freudian explanation if some nut case Arab had not murdered her. That attitude is evident in the Grand Inquisitor also, Marx was little known at the time it was written. KFZ, you, I Brad and Tim are anachronisms in an age of feelings without emotion, courage without cause and hatred for no purpose other than political power. To quote George S. Patton, "God I hate the 20th century"
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 4, 2020 17:55:01 GMT -8
Sadly, I believe you are correct. I would not care overly much except for my son's sake. Brad and Tim have the advantage there.
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Brad Nelson
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עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 5, 2020 10:21:20 GMT -8
I binged my way through Netflix’s Messiah. Typical of such series, it’s stretched out too far. But then Netflix has become like one of the old studies in Hollywood who were cranking out movies like Lucy and Ethel were cranking out chocolates on the candy line. And because this is a Netflix product, it’s highly politically correct. Feminism, anti-white-ism, and anti-Americanism are on display. For this Messiah, the solution to world peace is for the United States to withdraw all its troops from the world. As one review put it: I had to scroll down through a lot of obsequious 10-out-of-10 reviews to find a reality-based one. If you think the typical fare of “originals” from Netflix are good, then that explains the 10-out-of-10 reviews. Netflix, generally speaking, is representative of the worst of the worst. The balance of “Is he or is he not the Messiah” is played well in the first 3 or 4 episodes. I think it's very well done for a while. But then the plot unravels somewhat into various offshoots. In particular, I find Michelle Monaghan (although quite beautiful) leaving me with a feeling of dread if this is the best the CIA has to offer. She and her other higher-up chick executives seem based in a reality even more out of touch than a supposedly deluded Messiah. It's hard to believe anyone in the agency would see this guy as a threat. One of the more interesting characters is that of Reverend Felix. Again, I would say given that this is Netflix, it’s fair to say that his character is somewhat shallow and stereotyped. And yet there is something interesting and real about him. He believes in the Messiah but then throws a temper tantrum when the Messiah cuts him out of the loop. His wife is a cold customer. In fact, the maternal instinct in this series is zero. All the women are suitably devoid of warmth (except for the blond mother with the child suffering from an illness). They are, after all, “serious” in their careers. Tomer Sisley is also excellent in the intrinsically corrupt (if not evil) Israeli operative, Aviram Dahan. His is a very good cinematic snarl. There are themes here amidst the clusterf**k of stretched-out Netflixian interplay of characters — whether they intended these themes or not. First off, this series is by no means “original.” To a great extent, it is “Touched by an Angel” dressed up in political intrigue. Whether Al-Masih is the real Messiah or not is incidental. Of course he is…until the Netflix writers release all the filler and back-story in later episodes to explain how he isn’t.
But nothing is going to be honestly done in this regard. The circumstantial evidence is strongly in favor of Al-Masih being some kind of Messiah, whether the Messiah or something else. He can survive a plane crash without a scratch. He can apparently raise people from the dead. He can somehow cross an ocean from the Middle East to a small town in Texas where a tornado just happens to pop up and this Messiah just happens to be there to save a girl who just happens to have wandered away from her home. So if he’s not the Messiah, Netflix writers will have to either back-fill with a lot of nonsense or leave the question open. What you can say when watching a program like this is that we sure could use a whole lot of Messiahs wandering around, fixing things, healing people, dispensing hope and good advice. But the far-fetched political scheme (that is assumed to be the case by the CIA and others) that becomes central to this robs the series of anything approaching serious thought. And the Messiah himself is lamely played by Mehdi Dehbi who has the persona less of a would-be Christ and more of a second coming of Deepak Chopra as he dispenses substanceless inanities. Given the Netflixian theme that women are smart (and usually in the important positions of power) and men are all dolts, this somewhat feminized metrosexual Jesus is right up their alley. The most that this Jesus 2.0 can offer is his “Touched by an Angel” shtick, something much more convincingly and forcefully done by Roma Downey and Della Reese. But this is Netflix. On the level of a light soap opera, Messiah is certainly watchable. But as anything approaching thoughtful or subtle, it’s a mess.
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Post by timothylane on Jan 5, 2020 10:55:02 GMT -8
Mockery and skepticism of the CIA go back a long way and are quite bipartisan, though the precise details vary between left and right. In the Destroyer series, Chiun and Remo encountered a CIA agent named Ruby Jackson Gonzalez who was hired by the CIA because she was a black woman with a Hispanic surname, thus filling 3 affirmative action boxes. They gave her nothing to do (even though, having gotten an old McGuffey reader, she was the only student in her high school graduate class who could actually read her diploma) until a job came up in a Spanish-speaking country. (I don't remember the name, though I do recall that the dictator was named Estomacho.)
As it happens, she proved to be quite capable (and survived, not always a given when involved on a mission with Chiun and Remo). So the CIA let her go (though Harold W. Smith hired her to work for CURE -- she insisted on being paid in krugerrands despite the South African connection because "when it comes to currency, they be good" -- and she was a recurring character for a while).
Of course, she never had to deal with a possible messiah.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 5, 2020 11:58:47 GMT -8
I binged my way through Netflix’s Messiah. You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. I had to do it in three sessions. I spaced out the usual, progressive propaganda. It is so expected as to be non-existent. I found Avi to be the most real character in the entire series. Although, Shin Bet generally does not operate outside the borders of Israel. Avi is torn by the necessities of keeping Israel safe, "Behold, he that keepth Israel shall neither sleep, nor slumber", and his conscience. It is an interesting duality. I found some subtle anti-semitism in the series also. Just making Al-Masih Iranian should be a clue. But don't forget the chief doubter, Eva is Jewish. So, that is a string they can pull on if there is a second season. Making POTUS a Mormon is also an interesting turn, with Al-Masih quoting from the golden tablet. I wonder why he did't read through a top hat as Smith was supposed to have done? Overall the idea is an interesting one. Evangelicals have been writing similar kinds of end times stories for at least 50 years. Still we wait.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 5, 2020 12:24:00 GMT -8
Millenarians have been spouting such stories since before, well, the turn of the millennium i.e. AD 1000.
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Post by timothylane on Jan 5, 2020 12:42:52 GMT -8
Well, after all, that's what the Revelation of St. John the Divine mostly consists of. I read some millenarian pamphlet at my grandmother's home back around 1960 (I think) that was based primarily on Revelation. I suspect most such literature is. Joel C. Rosenberg has dealt with apocalyptic Biblical tales set in our present day, though I don't recall his dealing with the actual End Times. Dean Koontz had an encounter with aliens of some sort that turned out to be demons initiating the Apocalypse.
Despite the title, the movie The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse doesn't deal with the actual End Times, and Neil R. Gaiman's Good Omens turns out a bit differently (but then, it's a parody).
In more science fictional settings, both James Blish in Cities in Flight and Poul Anderson in Tau Zero dealt with people outlasting the end of the universe and reaching its successor. (Both used the notion of a cycle of universes being born, expanding, receding, and dying, each to be replaced by the next.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 5, 2020 13:55:46 GMT -8
First off, I want to thank Avi (err….Artler) for not taking my criticism of the series personally. But then he knows me. As soon as he heard Jesus tell Mitt Romney that all it took to achieve world peace was to remove all U.S. overseas forces, he was waiting for that tripwire spring to sprung as reliably as Old Faithful. I put a splint in my neck vein to keep it from bulging out so far.
It was a masterful job of Netflix to portray a truly dislikable defense-force Jew. All he needed was the hook nose and other Nazi-era caricatures added on. I knew I was being manipulated so I didn’t freak out about that. Instead, I noted what a great job Tomer Sisley did bringing that role to life. Stunning.
We would need to sit down with a scorecard and score the entire series to find out who gets the worst treatment. That suicide bomber certainly didn’t add any points for the “Religion of Peace.” And, hey, Jesus 2.0 did tell Jibril (another well-acted role although he hasn’t really been pressed) that the work he had to do wouldn’t be easy.
They said in the series that Jesus 2.0 had a Jewish mother and Christian father….or something of the sort. His ties to Judaism would have to be there or he couldn’t be a Messiah. To the best of my knowledge, a Swedish Messiah is not on the horizon, as good as a Swede might be in that role.
I really liked the Touched-by-an-Angel (I like to say “bitch-slapped by an angel”) that was done on the (FBI?) guy who was surveilling Jesus 2.0’s hotel room. One of the best scenes is when Douche Bag (I assume that is who set it up) sent in the prostitute to try to create dirt on Jesus 2.0. It not only didn’t work but Jesus 2.0 radiated such decency when talking to her that the FBI guy listening in walked out on doing any further surveillance.
I never know these days when themes are intentional or accidental. Could this series be making an implicit commentary on the “cold-career-robots” of which Eva is a prime example? A stab at secular culture? It will take a couple more bitch-slappings by an angel to flesh this out. And I’ll believe a stab at secular culture when I see it.
By the way, I love Eva’s father. Whether they take that character any further, I don’t know.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 5, 2020 14:14:36 GMT -8
"Been there, done that"-Max von Sydow
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Post by artraveler on Jan 5, 2020 14:53:19 GMT -8
my first thought also, was Max
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Post by artraveler on Jan 5, 2020 15:07:08 GMT -8
It was a masterful job of Netflix to portray a truly dislikable defense-force Jew. Netflix did not have to go far to find the model for Avi. The IDF, Shin Bet and Mossad are to many western eyes dislikable. The hard as rock Sabra (native Israeli) is not a joke. Avi is a natural outgrowth of the continuous war Israel has been fighting for the last 70 years of statehood and the 50 years of settlement before that. We understand that the world will never love us, they may respect us, even fear us but love us never, for we have to much audacity. Sabra is a native to Israel fruit that has a very hard skin, and is sweet and succulent on the inside.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 5, 2020 15:24:04 GMT -8
There must have been a movie I missed.
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