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Post by timothylane on Apr 14, 2020 19:54:36 GMT -8
Grendel Briarton (an anagrammatic pseudonym for Reginald Bretnor) did a long series of very short tales about time-traveling punster Ferdinand Feghoot. I remember that one deal with the story of Esau and Jacob. Some spaceship captain bringing a message that could only be sent by courier ending up eating it (short of rations, I guess), which would result in his being deported. Feghoot lamented that he had "traded his earthright for a pot of message."
Incidentally, a friend came up with one (it technically couldn't be a feghoot because Bretnor copyrighted the name) involving a botanist named Joseph P. Edgar who had come up with self-planting rice. He tossed a handful of regular rice and his new form onto a paddy, and his hybrid seeds actually dug into the ground. "You see?" he said. "Ordinary rice just lies there, but Edgar rice burrows."
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 7:03:29 GMT -8
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 7:26:54 GMT -8
I'll be sure to inform him of your reaction. He'll appreciate it.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 7:34:14 GMT -8
Well, I did laugh. I should have seen it coming and walked right into it.
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Post by lynda on Apr 15, 2020 9:01:08 GMT -8
"This is the first story I’ve run into that I would say is really morally messy."
This brings to mind a phrase that a friend and I share: "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". The picture that comes to my mind is of myself on a beach in a bikini. It's good for a laugh.
The thought applies to bible stories in light of the free will allowed us by God. The thing to remember is that every story, or subplot, in God's word may not be an example of moral behavior. Often, they are an example of the consequences of poor choices. And furthermore, we see that God - in His perfect time - can use even our disobedience to work things together for His good purpose.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 9:52:27 GMT -8
How nice to hear from you, Gibbnonymous. I had feared you went to Mars to socially-isolate yourself (limerick perhaps coming).
I’m totally on board with that. Dennis Prager says it is good evidence that the Torah (Old Testament) is real (god-inspired) because nobody would normally write down such unflattering things about themselves, especially in their holy book. I think there’s a lot to be said for that point of view.
Probably so. The disconcerting thing about the Jacob/Esau/Rebecca/Isaac episode is the voodoo-ish aspect whereby an entire chosen line of people was decided by such subterfuge, deceit, and machinations — and all for a human being’s blessing. This is not Moses staring down the pharaoh, maintaining upright, and leading his people successfully, in part, because of his own virtue and leadership skills.
The Jacob/Esau/Rebecca/Isaac episode is like a bad soap opera, as if you opened up Netflix at random and streamed some cheesy drama. But God is purported to have built not just a great nation on it but THE nation what was (and sometimes is) an example that is to be a blessing to all nations.
Like I said, looking at it from Prager’s perspective, you can gain appreciation that all this might very have well have been real because who would write it down otherwise unless you were a talentless Netflix series writer looking for ratings?
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 9:58:16 GMT -8
The nation of Edom comes from Esau. Incidentally, they later became Idumea, and the Herod line was Idumean. So I guess they got their revenge. On the other hand, I don't think there is any successor ethnicity to Edom/Idumea.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 11:01:30 GMT -8
Made a good cheese. (Close enough)
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 11:29:20 GMT -8
That looks like a gouda cheese. What does that have to do with Edom/Idumea?
By the way, Jacob was punished for deceiving Esau (and Isaac). Have you gotten to Leah and Rachel yet? Laban sure did a number on him, as Perchik pointed out in Fiddler on the Roof.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 11:39:00 GMT -8
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 11:46:04 GMT -8
There once was a nonymous Gibb. Whose rule was never to fibb It was her insistence To keep social distance “On the far side of Mars I did live”
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Post by kungfuzu on Apr 15, 2020 12:35:37 GMT -8
As you can see, standard Gouda is a bit dryer and darker.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 12:42:14 GMT -8
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 12:43:52 GMT -8
Gouda and Edam cheeses do look similar. I'm familiar with the red wrappings for Gouda, but not for Edam. Now I can see the pun.
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 12:47:47 GMT -8
I wasn't familiar with the idea of kosher cheeses, though the restrictions seem reasonable and for the most part irrelevant. Who ever heard of cheeses made from milk from swine or equines? I was familiar with the restrictions on mixing meat and dairy products -- all from the ban on cooking "a kid in the milk of its mother".
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Post by kungfuzu on Apr 15, 2020 13:25:37 GMT -8
I've had a number of Jewish friends tell me the main difference between kosher and non-kosher products is that the former give a bunch of rabbis a good source of income for basically the same product as non-kosher, i.e. it was a racket. Of course, these friends were not Orthodox.
Orthodox Jews take this very seriously. I have traveled with Orthodox Jews who carried kosher food in their suitcases as they were not likely to get kosher food where we were traveling. Can you imagine schlepping cans and jars of gefilte fish around the world? I even recall an instance where we ate at a customer's home because he was kosher.
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Post by timothylane on Apr 15, 2020 13:32:31 GMT -8
This can happen for other purposes. When Iva Toguri visited Japan to see relatives, she brought a large supply of American food because she didn't care for actual Japanese food (which, ironically, her family sold in their shop). How long this lasted I don't know, especially after the war came and she found herself an enemy alien (even though a Nisei) in Japan.
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Post by kungfuzu on Apr 15, 2020 14:25:32 GMT -8
Toguri's prosecution and conviction show that both the FBI and new media have been rotten institutions for decades. We should not be surprised at what has happened over the last three years.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 15, 2020 15:55:19 GMT -8
One of Prager’s friends or colleagues mentioned on his show a few days ago that had they been following Kosher practices in Wuhan, you’d have no Kung Fu Flu. And I doubt there would be this awful rubberized flesh pretending to be chicken in the delis either.
I never knew much about Kosher habits and that whole subject always sounded strange. Now we know there are inherent benefits. Now, if Jews could just figure out the Karl Marx isn’t Kosher, then we’d have something.
By the way, Mr. Flu Manchu. In Prager’s “The Rational Bible: Genesis,” he mentions a “UCLA psychiatrist Dr. Stephen Marmer” in his book. So you had the name pegged.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 18, 2020 8:37:33 GMT -8
In “The Rational Bible: Genesis,” Dennis Prager points out that there are two men in the Torah who have quite extensive writings about them, unlike any other: Moses and Joseph. The story of Joseph is so incredible that it almost has to be true. It’s tempting to say “You couldn’t make that up.” I stopped reading Prager’s book after the preliminaries of Joseph and re-watched the The Bible Collection: Joseph miniseries. You can find it for purchase or rental on VUDU (which is what I did) or Amazon Prime. It would appear that Amazon Prime has the entire series (there are about 8 different people or episodes of the Bible featured) for rent or purchase. I had watched several of these when they came out back in 1995. They were featured on TNT and were co-produced by Turner Pictures. If memory serves, Joseph and Abraham were the pick of the lot. And the Joseph miniseries is one of the best stories of the Old Testament or Torah put to film. I would rate only Cecil B. DeMille’s 1956 The Ten Commandments or 1959’s Ben-Hur ahead of it. If you haven’t seen it, it really is extraordinarily well done for a $10 million budget. Ben Kingsley plays a high Egyptian official, Potiphar. Martin Landau is superb as Jacob. I’ve never been a big Martin Landau fan. But he brings a light and fire to his acting I’d never seen before. This is even more remarkable if he, like a lot of Hollywood Jews, is not a practicing Jew. But I don’t know one way or another about that. Paul Mercurio is excellent as the older Joseph. And his brothers are played beyond excellence by a talented cast of actors, although it’s only three of four of them that get any real screen time. Prager notes that Joseph certainly didn’t endear himself to his older brothers, both by being a tattle-tale and by being so abrupt about his dreams — especially the one that said that they will all bow down to him. This is another case where I think Prager fails a little in his interpretation. Yes, it seems Joseph was somewhat of an unbridled yute but not one whose exuberance was never meant to be mean-spirited. The story seams to elicit a key aspect of human nature: People often hate the good or beautiful. The brothers (as portrayed in this miniseries) are a sour and argumentative bunch. One gets the distinct feeling that there are good reasons that their father finds Joseph to be their favorite, and quite beyond the fact that Rachel (Joseph’s mother) was Jacob’s favorite. We see later the truth of this, as Joseph (perhaps more than a bit humbled after being sold into slavery by his brothers — which tells you all you need to now about the character of the brothers) seems to be able to transform the people around him in Egypt for the better — all but the slut, the wife of Potophar, played very nicely by Lesley Ann Warren. Also excellent is Warren Clarke who is Joseph’s first slave master who deals out some rough treatment of Joseph. And whether the Pharaoh at the time was sort of a metrosexual snowflake-ish yute, I don’t know. But Stefano Dionisi is interesting as the Pharaoh. He plays him with a bit of air-headedness that is a delight. The series is presented in two-parts. And it can be a little disconcerting at first because the first episode makes it appear as if you’ve skipped past the first episode. But the flashback will come and it all works out well the way they did it. Be sure to see this production if at all possible.
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