|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2021 21:30:51 GMT -8
It seems Selwyn agrees with me.
I like his mention of Sulla. He attained power and when he felt the time was right, he walked away. He refused even bodyguards after he stepped down from power. Unfortunately, he dealt a bit too harshly with his enemies to be considered one of histories great men. He was however a good judge of character. He observed of Julius Caesar, who was lucky not to be killed by Sulla, "In this Caesar, there are many Mariuses."
In other words, Caesar would be a danger to the Republic. Sulla was right.
I am trying to figure out who is our Sulla and who is our Caesar. We are well past the noble Roman-Senator type.
Our founding fathers knew what was possible from ancient history.
|
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Jan 6, 2021 22:09:54 GMT -8
"The law is a ass, the law is a bachelor" comes from Mr. Bumble in Oliver Twist.
|
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Jan 6, 2021 22:20:48 GMT -8
We are well past the noble Roman-Senator type. I am not sure we ever got to the noble or for that matter if the Romans ever did. What I see today is a bunch of guys and girls who are more suited for a clown circus. My guess is the average Roman felt the same about their clowns, err, senators. |
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 6, 2021 22:36:41 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Jan 7, 2021 8:16:05 GMT -8
Interesting take on current events, but very much along the lines we have been discussing for months. www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/01/waving_goodbye_to_the_america_we_all_knew_and_loved.htmlThere is no doubt that our government does not run the way it was intended. Congress seems incapable of doing the country's business. What has it accomplished in the last four years aside from the ridiculous impeachment of the president and sending our tax money to countries that call us names? Using the coronavirus as an excuse, government is trying to insinuate itself into every facet of our lives. As we allow the government to tell us when we can leave our homes, when we can go to work, and under what circumstances we can run our businesses, we relinquish more and more of our independence. |
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 9:34:30 GMT -8
That’s awful white of you, Mr. Kung. The practical matter is that Trump has lost the political and public relations battle, and deservedly so. It’s an open and good question about how many Antifa and others might have infiltrated the protest. But there are many images I won’t soon get out of my head, including the goofballs climbing the wall outside the Capitol as well as the Cretan sitting in the president of the Senate’s seat. They define the moment. I’ve been to Tea Party meetings. This thing (riot? rally? cult-of-personality religious event?) looked more like a Monty Python sketch. And I’m not sure there wasn’t some dude there wearing a Viking helmet. After all this, it was awful noble of Trump to finally put out a Tweet that “there will be an orderly transition on January 20th.” A little late in the day, but better than nothing. Then this bizarro man added “While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history.” We would call this “deranged” if anyone else said it, and rightfully so. Joe Biden is supposed to be the one with the mental issues. There’s is rumbling about invoking the 25th Amendment. I don’t think that will happen. But it’s interesting, if true, that it was up to the Vice President to call out the National Guard, Trump having apparently declined to do so. This adds to the image of Trump fiddling while Rome burns. The practical outcome of Trump’s derangement is that he has given power to all those who Trump’s most ardent supporters consider the enemy: RINOs, Romney, etc. Ted Cruz has shot himself badly in the foot as well. Trump has done damage to the Republican Party, to the conservative movement (such as it is), and likely to election reform. You can get all hot-and-bothered about Mitch McConnell. But Mitch has to live in the real world. And that real world yesterday was Trump inciting a crowd and then that crowd turning to at least a partial mob and occupying the Capitol building with some damage of property and some people being injured or killed. To ignore this reality and to keep shifting blame away from Trump is, to my mind, to be sucked into this bum’s bizarro universe. I, for one, won't apologize for this ass of a man. In the end, the public did the right thing by throwing this bum out of office. The unfortunate aspect is that Biden and the Democrats are the barbarians they've let inside the gate to replace him.
|
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Jan 7, 2021 10:03:12 GMT -8
Trump has done damage to the Republican Party, to the conservative movement (such as it is), and likely to election reform. In the main I agree with you on this with a caveat. The Republican Party and conservative movement has been dead since the 80s. Trump has merely brought the political corruption of both parties to the forefront. How much damage could Trump do to a system of corruption that stinks to high heaven even before he was elected? So, a plague on both houses. To paraphrase from game of thrones, "that which is dead, is dead" We are now faced with one party Communist autocratic rule and not governance. This has been a long term overthrow of our Constitution and the inmates are in charge of the asylum. Trump with all his faults was a last line of defense and our lives will never be the same again. Conservatives and the Republicans are as dead as the dodo and will not regenerate. What will replace it is anyones guess but there will be violence, perhaps massive. |
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 10:14:39 GMT -8
Exactly. Trump was always going to be a disruptive agent in a corrupt system. He wasn't able to be disruptive enough.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 10:26:36 GMT -8
The general psychology of a mob — or just people who do bad things in violent movements — is that those who consider themselves victims feel justified in doing anything. Dennis Prager has often talked about this aspect of human nature. And I see it in operation regarding Trump. Anything is allowed if it is in opposition to our enemies who have done so many bad things to us. I won’t cross that line. I’ll say that the Left needs to be opposed and defeated. But that doesn’t give us license to do or believe any damn thing we want. Trump wasn’t a last line of defense. I would argue he wasn’t a line of defense at all but just another alligator in the Big Government swamp who sometimes aligned with traditional American ideals. Aside from that, he’s a demagogue. It’s all about him. He’s a conman and a liar. He’s nothing to build a reform movement upon because the man is so personally bizarre, mercurial, and inconsistent. Where do we go from here? That’s a good question. We need strident and principled opposition to the Left. And never do I expect that opposition to be perfect. When in a battle, you’re going to get your hands dirty. There is no perfect, especially when one’s opponents are openly and brazenly for mob rule. I do not believe the greatest virtue is to be polite while being led to the gallows. I’m not a RINO. I’m not one of those people for whom decorum is the be-all, end-all of everything. Cuntlosi. There, I said it. It’s a pet name I share with some friends for the Speaker of the House. But, good god, Trump has pulled a lot of otherwise sensible people into LaLa Land. I think this is a good article by Mike Miller at RedState. Anyone who thinks that Mike Pence is a traitor for not knuckling under to Trump’s clearly unconstitutional demand for Pence to unilaterally throw out electoral votes is a Cretan and an idiot. This is the reality on the ground. Whatever one thinks of the election results and how they were obtained, the Vice President does not have this power. But in the bizarro universe of Trump supporters, anything is right and possible if it is The Will of Trump. |
|
|
|
Post by artraveler on Jan 7, 2021 10:50:16 GMT -8
I’ll say that the Left needs to be opposed and defeated. I agree, but it is not going to happen as long as the leftists refuse to play by the same rules. In this war there are no rules anymore. Polite transfer of power died in the 19th century and the violence continues to grow daily. In many ways Trump is symbolic of politics as is is today. There are no polite handshakes or "nice game" curtsy. Politics is bloodsport, cage fighting and losers limp to the sidelines. Trump lost the election, it was his to lose and he did not help himself as much as he could. However, his policies are those that every conservative and most libertarians agree with and support. Many of those policies will stand, not because the AC agree with them, at least openly, but because of the inertia of government is slow. Perhaps in two years Republicans can take back the house and senate and check president Harris efforts to further radicalize the country, and maybe not. It will depend on clean trustworthy elections and that my friends doesn't seem possible. For those who say violence does not accomplish anything. I say ask the city fathers of Dresden and Hiroshima. |
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 11:04:45 GMT -8
When Schumer and Demoncrats do away with the filibuster in the Senate, say goodbye to the USA. Does anyone doubt that the many millions of illegal immigrants presently residing in the USA will be normalized and legalized? Does anyone doubt that the floodgates will open for many more millions of immigrants to the USA?
Will that hope and change be enough for everyone?
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 11:05:54 GMT -8
A traditionalist (or just anyone who has not given in to the Loony Left) is in a quandary when opposing a force (The Left...Democrats) who have zero integrity and who think the Constitution is an impediment to the Communist utopia they would gift us all if only they had total power.
But I do think there is a righteous and right place that exists between complete surrender and the lunacy of Trump and his cult-of-personality followers. If there is not then we are doomed.
If we can only parse things in terms of what some egomaniacal millionaire declares is right and just, then we have completely lost any kind of foundation of truth and justice upon which to build, let alone restore, our great republic. If all we can do is just pound away in reverse then it all just becomes Kabuki theatre and we become opposing, but similar, anarchists such as Black Lives Matter, Antifa, and the Democrat Party itself.
Good riddance Trump. But there are real problems that remain, including voter fraud. And I do believe Trump’s general idiocy and dishonesty have made it much tougher for anyone to address this problem. Thank you, Mr. President.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 11:14:11 GMT -8
The conventional wisdom seems to be that Biden will leave the Wall intact. It will be interesting to see.
If you look back at the statistics, it’s an almost certainty that the party that holds the presidency will lose some seats in the House and Senate in the midterms, so I think you’re right on.
I won’t go point-by-point through all the hypocrisy of the media and Democrats yesterday. Again, they are “shocked, shocked” that there should be riots in the streets of America.
But, the practical matter is that these riots did not happen in the commercial district of Portland. They happened in the Capitol of the oldest republic on earth. “Whataboutism” doesn’t cancel out the bad optics of this. Trump had a yuge PR loss yesterday, and it’s a loss that will tarnish far beyond just his royal presence.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 11:32:38 GMT -8
Here’s the level of denial as perhaps best portrayed by Brandon Morse in his article, “The Right Isn’t Responsible for the Capital Hill Riot Like the Left is for BLM Riots.” Work was slow yesterday, and most of the Blue Bloods re-runs on ION TV I had seen before or recently. So I spent a good deal of time watching the news coverage of yesterday’s Occupy Cuntlosi’s Chair, or whatever you want to call it. What I saw was a lot of what the Left might rightly call “dumb-asses” (if not “deplorables”) doing goofy (if not also dangerous and illegal) things. And most of them prominently were waving Trump flags and/or had themselves draped in Trump paraphernalia. There were some American flags as well and a truly cringe-inducing large flag in bold letters on a solid color background that just said “Jesus.” I’ll grant that the Republican Party didn’t endorse this gathering, but Trump did. And a lot of goofy, if not also dangerous and illegal, stuff happened quite clearly under the Trump banner. Lots of red MAGA hats. No viewer at home could be expected to parse the fine points and think, “Well, gosh, clearly the Republican establishment didn’t advocate for this, therefore the guy with the Viking hat sitting in the speaker’s chair is doing this completely on his own.” I was embarrassed as an American and a conservative by what those doofuses (doofi?) did yesterday. I know quite well that this crowd/mob was to be rightly thought of as conservative or Republican. |
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 12:45:47 GMT -8
I did not watch much TV yesterday, and only saw some shots of the huge crowd waiting for Trump and others to speak. I have heard from a couple of sources that the estimates are that there were between 500,000 and 1,000,000 people there. The crowd was larger than this one in November.
I saw a video this morning of the Capital Police, yesterday, opening up the barricades for the Trump supporters. There was nothing violent about this.
I heard Bernie Kerik, who was in D.C., say that there was another group which pushed through the barricades. I will wait for this video to come out.
I saw a video of some guys breaking windows in the Capital Building and climbing into the building. I cannot say who they were, but several of them were dressed exactly like the Antifa thugs I have watched over the summer and fall. They wore helmets, camo or black and had backpacks.
According to Jack Posobiec of OAN, there were certainly some men up front agitating with bullhorns. He could not yet confirm who these people were. He is still investigating.
I heard that there were between about 50 and 100 people who actually went into the Capital Building. I don't recall if that was from Newsmax, OAN or someone else. It just sticks in my mind that the person who said this was in the building at the time the people got in.
Whoever took place in this will have to be arrested and held to account. I look forward to hearing what actually took place. I especially look forward to finding out exactly why the woman was shot.
I do not hold 500,000 to 1,000,000 people at the rally responsible for this. I hold the people who took part in this responsible for it.
|
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Jan 7, 2021 13:09:56 GMT -8
Brad is quite right that the storming of the Capitol will be blamed on the GOP, and Morse is right that they don't deserve it. Even Trump almost certainly had no such intention. None of his rallies have ever led to such violence (except when they were attacked by Demagogue storm troopers). He certainly encouraged a demonstration at the Capitol. Note that most of the protestors didn't participate in storming the Capitol, thus making it a "mostly peaceful protest". And the rioters did a lot less damage than in many of the riots earlier this year. (Incidentally, there was another riot in Portland last night, with leftists breaking windows in a lot of buildings. I assume there was some looting as well.)
Incidentally, a bunch of Molotov cocktails were discovered, and whoever brought those was not incited by Trump's speech at the rally. A pipe bomb was left at the Capitol, and another at the RNC. Some people showed up planning to commit serious violence, and may have been leftist infiltrators.
A number of people have resigned from the Trump administration already, including Labor Secretary Elaine Chao (McConnell's wife) and Mick Mulvaney. Whatever Trump's responsibility, the GOP establishment is blaming him. (One wonders how many of those resigning officials would do so if Trump had been re-elected. But of course, in that case there would've been no MAGA rioters.) There are even Demagogues and RINOs calling for either the 25th Amendment (which isn't properly applicable) or impeachment (which is unlikely to happen by January 20).
I agree with KFZ that some of the people breaking through the window looked like Antifa types when I watched the video yesterday. It's also the sort of thing they would do. As I mentioned, the leftists did a lot of that in Portland last night.
|
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 13:30:16 GMT -8
Virtue signaling and shifting the blame. The proverbial rats leaving a sinking ship. Human nature at its finest.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,282
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 7, 2021 13:37:21 GMT -8
Some of you guys are denigrating McConnell. But I think he gives a fantastic speech before the Senate. I’ll also recommend this article to you by Matt “It’s not easy being” Purple. If none of this makes any sense you guys or touches a cord, I suggest we part ways on this topic. There’s nothing more to be said. |
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 13:41:52 GMT -8
The main question will be whether or not Trump and his supporters should encouraged the rally in D.C. on January 6th.
|
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 7, 2021 13:58:32 GMT -8
Here is a video of the woman being shot in the Capital Building. It is hard to be sure, but I can't see anything which would call for shooting someone.
The second video is one of Matt Gaetz making his speech yesterday in the House. I suspect he will be one of the leaders of the conservative movement going forward.
|
|
