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Post by artraveler on Aug 19, 2021 13:08:45 GMT -8
This buffoon is in charge of the US Military There is a point in an officer's career that he must decide if he is going to defend his command from all the stupid going down or he is going to adopt the stupid to advance in rank. That point seems to be when he goes from company command (Captain, Major) to battalion command (LT Col, Col). Very few make it through the process to flag rank. A second step come after the first star. A political player will be able to deal themselves into the the g-d like levels of upper command where the only NCOs they see are drivers and guards to the officers mess and full bird colonels run their most trivial errands. The are further divorced from the realities in the field than any CEO of any major corporation. Very few officers survive this process and remain human. They retire later to great acclaim from their peers and universally hated by every enlisted man. Milley is just another product of this badly flawed system. He is tone deaf and clueless but not stupid. Additionally, the only way history has found to clean this kind of mess up is a good gut busting war where their incompetence can not be justified by any rational leaders or more importantly be the men they command. Not all "friendly fire" or fragging deaths are accidental and "enemy fire" is a great coverup for murder.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 19, 2021 15:01:02 GMT -8
I have no doubt that the number of incompetents is larger than the number of traitors. Such is human nature. In all spheres of life, the incompetents will generally go with the flow and follow those who send down the orders, even if the orders are traitorous. This includes the military and police. Where there is real danger is when the traitors in power are incompetents who have lost the ability to discern reality from fantasy. The left has always had this problem. From the Jacobins, to the Communards, to the Nihilists of Narodnaya Volya to Lenin and his Bolsheviks, to Hitler and his Nazis, Mao and his CCP, Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge, the left has always been a pack of criminals with an insatiable lust for power to build their castles-in-the-air dream world. Regardless the cost in blood and treasure. Of others. The link is to an excellent piece on just how our elites interest in pushing such things as LGBTUVWXYZ vomit, has served to ruin much of what America has done over the last twenty years. The author really hits them hard on the attempt to get women equality in all aspects of Afghani life. We need to fumigate our elites
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Post by artraveler on Aug 20, 2021 6:08:07 GMT -8
Part Two
The Bug-Out
Only five days ago I wrote about the ongoing disaster that is the withdrawal from Afghanistan. To date, 20 August 2021, no one has any idea how many Americans are effectively held hostage in that dismal country. Estimates range from 5,000 to 30,000 not counting Afghan supporters of the United States which may range from 15,000 to 50,000. The fate of these people is, at best questionable. A genocide is the probable result if they stay in country.
Our allies in NATO, who have citizens in Afghanistan, are using special forces to move their citizens to the airport without interference from Taliban troglodytes. So far, there is no similar American effort to do the same.
There are reports of violence from Taliban in the outskirts of Kabul. There are reports of Taliban going door-to-door and hanging anyone who assisted Americans. Every woman in Afghanistan is now wearing a burka. So much for women’s rights, they don’t have any. After 20 years of relatively tolerant governance hardline Islamic rule is the new order of the day.
Our President, who seems to be wandering through office without a clue, is stunningly insensitive to the disasters he has allowed to happen. His public speeches are disjointed and stumbling over words and phrases. While it may be possible to put it down to diminished capacity, that cannot be said of the rest of the administration.
The only logical conclusion for these serial crises is that it is the administration intent to do everything possible to bring the Unites States down. To leave our allies wondering if, and what the United States will do next.
As an American Zionist with family in Israel. I have serious concerns about the relationship between Israel and America. Israel has been under attack from Islamic radicals supported by Iran for decades. The primary deterrent has always been the support of the American government. The four years of the Trump Administration refreshed and renewed that relationship. It put Iran on notice. The only deterrent Israel can now depend on is it’s own triad of nuclear weapons.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 20, 2021 7:35:23 GMT -8
One of the central themes in Hira Singh is that Sikh regimental leaders may quickly find themselves a casualty in war if they displease their unit.
I can’t begin to understand the dynamics of the forces in Afghanistan or the military command structure. But you paint an appropriate bleak picture, Artler. And some kind of bleak picture must be true to account for the facts. If not this one, then another. Or all combined.
I know it’s not cool to criticize the selfless rank-and-file soldier. But I wonder how many knew through the grapevine that their service in Afghanistan was often more along the lines of the Peace Corps than a true military operation. It might not be just the top that is rotten. And every time I see some 110 lb. woman in camouflage in the check-out line of the grocery store, that certainly is evidence to me that a whole lot of people other than just generals are on the gravy train of government.
I’m not saying there aren’t risks. But we’ve been lied to for over 20 years. And such large lies are usually known by many. Obviously it was known by all commanders that the Afghan army was a paper tiger and that if America pulled out, they would fold like a cheap tent. That must be a primary reason why no one wanted to be the guy to bug out.
That a “let’s eradicate the Taliban” turned into “nation building” probably has more than one tentacle as to the cause. But I think the primary cause is the false notion of Islam amongst most people in society. They are viewed as just another victim group of those nasty white Christian straight males who used to own slaves. Most in our society (in or out of the military command structure) are ill equipped to deal with the reality of Islam. Their illusions predominate.
As for why any sane country would put the self-validation needs of weirdos, queers, and cross-dressers above military necessity shows just how crazy our society has become. And I don’t blame this just on the stupid generals. This stuff is all over now. It’s like The Blob that just keeps showing up everywhere and smothering everybody with its goo.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 20, 2021 8:14:03 GMT -8
But I think the primary cause is the false notion of Islam amongst most people in society. For over 100 years the West has made accommodation for Islam as a, "religion of peace". Islam only offers peace for those who are its faithful adherents. It offers a solace to the many misfits in Muslim societies for people who are consistently anti-social, deranged, homicidal, suffering from schizophrenia and just general day-to-day killers. Every condition found in Freud's index is found to excess in Islam and Nazism. there is no reason to assume rational action on the part of this so-called religion. Our only recourse is to treat it the same way we treat other derangements. Where they have a tendency to act violently, our only response has to be greater violence, where they insist on derangement we must be unforgiving and lock them up. I repeat what I said earlier: one Muslim can be friendly, polite, and trustworthy. Two muslims are not trustworthy Three Muslims is a conspiracy to overthrow the government Four Muslims is a Jahaid
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 20, 2021 8:48:26 GMT -8
Military doesn't know how many Americans in Afghanistan This is a somewhat amazing claim. I understand that intentional chaos presently reins in Afghanistan, but surely, our government must have some idea of how many Americans are in country. When I lived overseas, American Embassies asked all Americans in country to register with the Embassy. As I recall, the main reason for this request was that the Embassy wanted to be able to contact Americans quickly in case of situations like the present one in Afghanistan. Having lived in places like Singapore, Japan and Switzerland, I never felt the urge to register. Had I lived in today's Afghanistan, you can be sure I would have been on the Embassy's list. I imagine most Americans in Afghanistan will have felt the same way. So the question is..."Why don't we know how many Americans are still in Afghanistan."
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 20, 2021 9:03:01 GMT -8
I don't think many rank-and-files soldiers go into much depth regarding their situation. They have been ordered to go somewhere, do a job and wait for the next order.
I also believe there must have been much more danger involved in both and Afghanistan and Iraq than many think. If this were not the case, why are we seeing an epidemic of suicides among ex-military members?
The stress of repeated deployments to a foreign environment unlike anything you can imagine, having to constantly worry about your coalition "partners" not shooting you in the back, not being able to tell "friendlies" from "the bad guys," insane rules of engagement and more, would be enough to stress-out anyone.
Yes, the rank-and-file soldier has his faults and problems, but this disaster rests squarely on the shoulders of the scum-bag politicians (I include general officers and State Dept. bums in that category) who have driven this fiasco.
Enlisted men don't make policy.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 20, 2021 9:08:36 GMT -8
You did not need to repeat it, but I appreciate it. This was something driven into my head by either David Horowitz or Daniel Pipes (or both). The exact formula, I forget. But it’s the realization that when the percentage of Muslims is higher than X amount (about 7% or so, from what I remember), they change their attitude from having to conform (more or less) to the society that they live in to trying to impose their Nazi-like political/social/economic/religious system on the rest of the inhabitants.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 20, 2021 9:31:31 GMT -8
That’s what I’m talking about. Before people had enlisted, there must have been some talk in the grapevine about the real situation in Afghanistan that certainly many supposed they could find themselves thrust into.
I was talking to a father a year or so ago. His son had enthusiastically enlisted (or re-enlisted) and was definitely heading for Iraq or Afghanistan. I forget the details. But I was surprised that a conservative father had not provided better guidance regarding the clusterfuck that these doe-eyed boys were getting into. Of course, if one re-enlisted, they absolutely knew what they were getting into.
We never hear many of the details (at least publicly) because the soldiers remain sacrosanct and beyond criticism. But I’d like to know what the real story is. Why did these guys enlist? What were they expecting? Don’t the read the friggin’ newspaper? I mean I’d like to hear the truth, not convenient virtue-signaling fictions or cover stories.
That’s what I’m talking about. That totally white-washes over the dynamic of the volunteers inserting themselves into what certainly had to be known to be a clusterfuck. So what was the attraction of re-creating Vietnam for these enlistees? Or were they in it for the long-term Uncle Sam benefits? Or were they just totally clueless?
Or did any of the realities not matter at all because becoming a soldier was damn near the last thing a real man could do to be a traditional rough-and-tumble man? What a shock it should have been for at least some of them to see the primary role of wokeness and LGBT-acquiescence in the military. Or — again — perhaps the truth is they were fully supportive of putting the feelings of cross-dressers over military prudence and necessity.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 20, 2021 10:27:51 GMT -8
But I’d like to know what the real story is. Why did these guys enlist? Ok, Brad for every warrior the story is different but surprisingly the same. In early 1970 my first marriage was on the rocks. I knew getting married was a mistake and so did my ditty wife. I had done one semester of university, Stanford, which my family paid for but the commute from Sacramento to Palo Alto was grim. I considered transfer to UC Davis or Sacramento State and decided that was not for me at that time. What to do? Well, I followed my father's example and enlisted in Marines in the middle of February 1970. Two weeks later I was standing on the yellow footprints at MCRDSD. I knew, as well as it is possible, that I would be sent to Vietnam. At that time I had no idea that it would be as a civilian not a marine. Nor, did I have any awareness that path would take me to South America, Europe and the Middle East. It was an adventure, a chance to be a part of a strong and proud military and serve my family and my nation. It was that one semester at Stanford that changed it all. Some one must have flagged my CV when I enlisted and the skills I learned from the old gunny, my father, further brought me to the attention of whatever godlike beings inhabit personnel for DoD and CIA. My last week at basic I was recruited by the agency and was on a plane east the next day. Two days later I was a civilian again and my entire service record had been purged. That was defiantly not the path I expected. I had expected to be in combat with a fire squad of marines. The only time I saw real combat was fighting with an army I had not joined. I was wounded in Nam, could have been serious, but it wasn't. My partner and I felt pretty salty on our return to real world USA in September 71. We even related our experiences to new agency recruits going to Vietnam just to give them the flavor of the place. Speaking of flavors, it has been 50 years and the smell of fish sauce still brings flashbacks. My dreams are occasionally troubled by the sights, sounds and smells of deployment to hostile locations. I suppose those memories are fully entrenched in my mind. In that I don't think I am alone. My biggest regret is that my grandchildren here and in Israel have to live their lives with the same. War is the father of us all. We hate it, despise those who force it upon us, yet we cannot resist its call.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 20, 2021 13:22:36 GMT -8
Yours appears to be an honest story. And it makes sense. Certainly if one is entering the military, one is going to have reasons for doing so. That’s one big commitment.
Maybe I have a hard time understanding serving in Afghanistan because it’s long been plain that any risk one was taking was for a rotten cause.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 20, 2021 16:33:50 GMT -8
No one thinks they are going to be the last KIA or WIA in a war, yet thousands reenlist and return to the same wars time after time. In one way it is a good thing as their practical experience is a great training tool for FNGs (fucking new guys) and helps keep the numbers killed or wounded lower. For some there is an adrenaline rush in combat that they seek to keep. For others life outside the military is something they cannot handle. They need the discipline and rules. I think this is an important reason we have career military who spend 20-30-35 years in the ranks. Life as an independent free person is scary. Like many police officers there is an out of range cases of suicide among retired military.
Roman soldiers used to be landowners and would only be conscripted for a fighting season or war and then be released. the same was true for the Greeks. However, with the Marian reforms in about 75 BCE the army became a full-time institution. Soldiers enlisted, essentially for life 20 years. At which time they might be pensioned off, given land in some remote part of the empire and encouraged to marry and raise sons to fill the ranks in 15-16 years.
For the better part of 500 years the western empire functioned with few variations with this system. By the 3rd century CE the ranks came to be filled with more new citizens from Gaul, Germany and the Balkans. Many of these non-Romans were offered Roman citizenship for their service. So over the last 2000 years not much has changed. The reasons for joining are still the same and often the reasons for staying are remarkably the same.
The warriors business is still the same. The violent imposition of political policy. The weapons are different as is the lethality of those weapons. But joining, fighting and living to tell the tale is exactly the same.
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Post by artraveler on Aug 21, 2021 7:44:21 GMT -8
An interesting article in JNS about the fallout from the current disaster. These are real world questions and the Biden/Harris/Mao administration doesn't have any clue except to harm the US any manner possible. So those states have increasingly drawn the conclusion that they have one neighbor who unlike Iran or Turkey poses no threat to them, and who continually displays a firm willingness to use military power against its enemies. That’s Israel.”
Therefore, ironically, the abrupt American withdrawal from Afghanistan could draw some Arab states closer to Israel.
An American failure on the scale of Afghanistan’s collapse, including the reckless abandonment of longstanding allies in the Afghan government and military, cannot help but send shudders through vulnerable U.S. partners in the Arab world and make them wonder what steps they need to take to make sure they don’t become the next victim of Washington’s headlong retreat from the Middle East and global leadership
What hedging strategies will Middle East governments pursue? Appeasing an emboldened Iran? Pursuing greater ties with China and Russia? Secretly seeking their own nuclear deterrent? www.jns.org/taliban-triumph-in-afghanistan-has-arab-states-and-israel-hedging-dependence-on-us/
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 21, 2021 9:13:04 GMT -8
Makes sense. I will say that the burden of proof is not on why any man would want to join the military. Warfare is the human norm. As you said, it’s the father of us all.
Still, as Elaine said:
My understanding is that, historically, a large motivation for the soldier was traditionally pillage. Absent that in the modern day (at least with Western armies), do you suppose that (aside from wanderlust, adventure, or lacking a firm purpose in civilian life) that many now view the military as a sort of quasi Peace Corps where their do-gooderism can play out?
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Post by artraveler on Aug 21, 2021 10:42:21 GMT -8
do you suppose that (aside from wanderlust, adventure, or lacking a firm purpose in civilian life) that many now view the military as a sort of quasi Peace Corps where their do-gooderism can play out?That is defiantly a motivation for the utopians. They sit around and singing kumbuya as civilizations collapse around them. Part, I believe is the influence of pacifist religious teaching which renders normal people into sheep, another part is cowardice and the willingness to surrender to any intimidating force. Or, as Churchill said, to be the last one eaten by the alligator.
However, the left has never been pacifist or even peace seeking. The left has always been hypocritical in this regard. Not only will they shoot back but they will initiate violence while wrapping themselves in a mantle of virtuous language. That is perhaps the great trap. Honorable men will listen to their words and hold back in the forlorn hope that violence can be avoided--it can't. We want to tell ourselves that we are not killers but the sad reality is man is the most talented killer the planet has ever seen. We kill for all the reason you listed and one other and the most important. We like it. It is only deference to other stronger killers that prevents the entire world from destruction. That said, I never killed anyone who wasn't trying their best to kill me or people I was with. But as Saint Clint of Eastwood said, "A man's got to know his limitations".
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 21, 2021 13:04:58 GMT -8
Watch the third video, i.e. Tucker Carlson. It confirms what I have been saying a long time now. Follow the money Our elites are thoroughly corrupt. I tend to the school of philosophy that maintains, by-in-large, they always have been. What is different is the way government has grown since FDR. Eisenhower warned of this. The military-industrial-intelligence-foreign-policy-financial complex is so large and the money to be made so enormous that only a saint could resist the corruption which naturally sprouts from such a situation. As we all know, saints rarely seek the power to rule over people.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 22, 2021 20:14:47 GMT -8
Does this look like an "orderly withdrawal?" We want out too I agree with the British officer who was once commander of British Forces there. Biden should be court martialed, not just impeached.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2021 7:37:50 GMT -8
It’s strange to think that after 20 years, the Afghani military couldn’t find something worth fighting for. How does this not prove the inherently tribal nature of the region, a place where “nation building” made as much sense as trying to freeze water in hell?
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Post by artraveler on Aug 23, 2021 9:03:03 GMT -8
According to CIA source book the population of Afghanistan is about 40 million. Over the last 20 years the Afghan army has taken over 50,000 KIA and an unknown number of WIA perhaps as much as 500,000 if consider 10 wounded for ever one killed. Even with massive US support those are hard numbers to live with. The bigger problem is that the average Afghan enlistee can not read, write or comprehend the training we gave them. I've seen numerous reports of of American consultants and trainers having, through a translator, explain simple ideas we take for granted time after time and they still don't get it.
That they surrendered to the Taliban so quickly is not a surprise. They live there and the Americans are leaving. How quickly would colonials given up if the French had just said we are not staying in North America? I submit we would be speaking a different style of English today if they had. No, it's more remarkable that the Afghan army held the line with American support for so long, when that support stopped they faded into the night left on their own. It was the same in Vietnam. The South Vietnamese army fought well but only with American support, when that support stopped the army gave up. However, bear in mind that this is the same army that brought China to a standstill just a few years later.
Afghanistan is a hell hole and as soon as our people are out we should fence it off and crater the entire mess.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 23, 2021 13:02:59 GMT -8
Those reports simply have to be true. It’s astonishing to think that a country (any country) would spend 20 years, and much blood and treasure, to seek a goal that at every step and circumstance along the way made obvious that it was a delusional one. And yet the 20 years go by. These are the experts, the leaders, the professionals. I’m just a private citizen with an opinion. But, good god, to think that our country and our military is run by a bunch of idiots is disconcerting.
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