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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 16:28:39 GMT -8
I broke down and borrowed "Vienna Twilight" from my local library. They only had two or three of the series and I have already read "Vienna Blood."
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 17:11:17 GMT -8
The Marillenknödel looks exactly like one of the many desserts described in the book. And the book does give the impression that when one of these fellows is on the road and is hungry, he tends to reach for a pastry of some kind. And a coffee to go with it. Like you or I might grab a quick burger and a milkshake. One of the fellows (Liebermann, I think) interviews the pastry chef of a fancy shop. He shows him a photo of some kind of almond tart found at the scene of a death and wonders if he knows who made it. It turns out, his shop did, of course, because of the various distinguishing marks that probably only this chef would understand. And this chef (and/or owner, I forget) noted that in his establishment, each dessert had its own specialist. A chef would do that treat and no other. Well, you don't have to tell me twice that the Austrians take their treats seriously. We're not talking Dunkin Donuts. No wonder so much of the world looks down on us as barbarians. Our tastes really are pedestrian. Think about what Italians eat and the junk we buy as pizza. Etc., etc. What you pick up from these books is the high culture in Austria that is rare and, in its style, is found nowhere else. And the context is the tragedy of these "high cultures" throwing it all away with Nazism…and now socialism.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 17:24:33 GMT -8
I just started Vienna Secrets. This takes place just after one of the other books I read (I forget which). But it's the one where he dumps Clara because Vienna Secrets makes note at the start that the breakup was a recent event.
There was nothing at all wrong with Clara. In fact, Liebermann probably made a bad choice. She would have made a great wife and mother. And if he needed a little more excitement on the side, men could do that back then (or now, I suppose). But his attraction to the oddball Brit (Amelia Lydgate) apparently showed him there was a deeper layer of affection/attraction that he hadn't yet experienced.
In Fatal Lies you got more in depth regarding Freudianism. And I wouldn't say that the author sugarcoats it. Freud does come off sometimes as a bit odd. And certainly the theories seem to be based on as solid a ground as phrenology. It's seems to be a theory with such wide latitude for interpretation that therefore you run into the quality of one's conjectures not being subject to falsification. Freudianism really does seem to be sort of a pseudo-religion based on an atheist/materialist framework.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 17:49:40 GMT -8
In fact, that "little excitement on the side" was a big topic of discussion in those days as a one time dalliance could lead to slow death through V.D. Arthur Schnitzler among others wrote of these things. He was a notorious philanderer. Sexual frustration was a big thing for the middle and upper classes in those days. Of course, that didn't stop many from taking the chance. One of Freud's biggest problems was that he dealt with a lot of secular, hysterical Jewish women from the upper middle and wealthy classes. Many believe that Freud actual projected his own neurosis on to his patients.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 18:05:51 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 18:12:27 GMT -8
It was thrown away before the Nazis got anywhere near Vienna. WWI destroyed Western European Culture. The commies and Nazis were just filling in the void.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:12:30 GMT -8
I believe syphilis played a small role in one case...or was something referred to in an old case. In Fatal Lies, cocaine plays a role in setting someone outside the narrow path. Through Liebermann we also learn a bit about Freud's experimentation with the drug.
LMAO! Wow. That explains a lot. Imagine having to deal with the equivalent today which I would say are 15-to-35 year old liberal women. Secular, Hysterical. Yikes. Calling Dr. Freud.
In Fatal Lies, we return again and again (via Liebermann) to the idea that small things can be clues to yuge things...the unconscious peaking through. There was a hilarious moment (in one of the novels) when Liebermann was talking about the difficulty of giving a case exposition at his mentor's house surrounded by Freud's small group of privileged fellow enthusiasts. Liebermann realized that one little slip of the tongue would be interpreted...and most likely not interpreted in a good way. Freudian slip, and all that.
It's clear to me that this ideology is just way over the top. Probably useful in bits and pieces but otherwise it just seems like voodoo. Still, I don't disagree with Freud that even in infants (a crying baby) we can see traits that will carry through to adulthood. How could it be otherwise, though? We don't go through a metamorphosis like a caterpillar. We change gradually from infant to human. The basic traits are all there.
And maybe many people are that simplistic and predictable. I don't doubt that. I'm just not sure you can shove everything through the sexual or "repressed" lens. In one of the novels, the repression (or careful regulation) of political or social groups in Austria (they all had to be registered, and the Freemasons were not allowed normal gathering) was deemed a cause for catastrophes that happen later. That is, if you "repress" groups (such as anarchist or proto-Nazi groups), they will just be expressed worse somewhere else down the line.
Well, hopefully you intelligent folk here can see the hopeless logic of that. But that's what Freudianism gave us, perhaps its worst gift. People today believe that "repression" is bad and will simply make things worse. Well, if little Billy is pulling wings off of butterflies, he ought to be "repressed" early and often. It's a bizarre belief that tolerating horrible stuff will somehow not make it grow worse. But I guarantee you – left or right – this is the second-hand smoke that most people inhale and have come to accept as normal.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:17:58 GMT -8
Assuming this guy's history is accurate, it may have been something that existed once but was later torn down or something else built in its place. He described an exact recreation of a Venetian canal and the buildings along it. It sounded as if it was just a few canals. But I thought it was a great idea.
I didn't realize that the scene from "The Third Man" was in the Prater. Interesting.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 21, 2021 18:21:53 GMT -8
Freudianism really does seem to be sort of a pseudo-religion based on an atheist/materialist framework. I believe there is truth in that, although may oldest son mother who later became a children's therapist in Israel contended that Freud made some very insightful observations but as therapy were useless and tended to keep people in therapy much longer than necessary. She made this observation just before graduation from CSUS. I consider her an expert on Freud as she taught herself German to better read his work and there are nuances in German that just don't translate. I think that Freud would be shocked to discover the religious fervency of his work and the following atheist obsession of modern therapy.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 18:23:06 GMT -8
Well the Prater is near the Danube and the river and its islands could be simulated to be something of a little Venice.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 21, 2021 18:27:19 GMT -8
The Third man is one of my favorite spook movies and the zither soundtrack ads just enough quirkiness to make it fun.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:36:57 GMT -8
There’s a core conservative belief — I believe best espoused by Russell Kirk — that any ideology that tries to be a complete framework is doomed to a creaky collection of internal contradictions and other defects that lead the ideology to become pathological.
I have no doubt at all the Freud made some brilliant observations. But, not unlike B.F. Skinner, I think he tried to stuff all human behavior into a narrow sieve.
Still, in Fatal Lies there seems to be an honest and open discussion of Freud. Liebermann more than once wonders if his mentor isn’t (my words, not his) a bit cracked. But usually he mentally capitulates, his objections are forgotten, and Freud remains a genius in his eyes.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:41:00 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 18:45:31 GMT -8
You got me thinking about this.
Given the old-fashioned style of eating in Central Europe, a quick coffee and pastry would be considered a snack.
When I first moved to Europe in 1973, I would often get long sit-down meals (almost always lunches) at the homes of people I visited. There was always soup to start, followed by some sort of salad, meat, potatoes, vegetables and dessert. Coffee closed the concert. I may be forgetting a course or two. Supper was almost always much lighter, often cold cuts and bread and pickled cabbage or something like that.
In those days, I could eat like a horse and not gain a pound. Those German Hausfrauen loved me. How often did I hear the fond phrase, "Fu, please have some more" as the lady of the house piled on more of whatever she wished me to eat. Such cooks love it when they see someone enjoy their creations.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:50:08 GMT -8
One of the background constants in these books is the reverential mention of Director Mahler. He was director of the Vienna Hofoper (1897-1907). We meet him only very briefly (so far) in passing in Fatal Lies.
These books are reminiscent to reading the Bosch novels where I bookmarked scads of jazz music, artists, and albums. Same with the many classical suggestions by Oskar and Max.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 21, 2021 18:52:05 GMT -8
Ess. ess, mein kinder
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 18:56:42 GMT -8
Wonderful memories. Sound like wonderful ladies. I'm trying to be a good boy this year. Down to about 198 at the moment. I'm not making Christmas cookies or the usual Chex party mix. And I'm fine with that. I can enjoy just reading about these marvelous Austrian pastries and treats. I can almost smell them. Let's put it this way: The ratio in the books of mentioning pastry to women's breasts is about 75 to 1. I know where this author is coming from.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 18:59:37 GMT -8
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 19:02:41 GMT -8
Yes, Brahms is often the subject of the music in the interludes with Max at the keyboard and Oskar doing the vocals. Brahms is spoken of with due reverence. I’ll cue some up on Apple Music, hopefully the third symphony. I’ll see if they have Herbert von Karjan and the Berliner Philharmoniker. (Yes, found it.)
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:08:55 GMT -8
From between 202-204, I got down to 186 in about a week. I am still at about 187-188. Most of the weight I lost was fluid, but I still don't recommend the method. I still have fat, but my muscles seem flabby from loss of fluid.
We are all still recovering so this will be the first time in my life that I will not celebrate Christmas. We are just too tired.
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