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Post by artraveler on Dec 21, 2021 19:12:28 GMT -8
Better than the New York under Bernstein. I never liked Leonard. I think he went over the top too often just to impress the tilted finger crowd in NYC. Herbert on the other hand, really worked to bring out every tone possible in an orchestra. His Mahler 1st is one of the best ever recorded. Brahms is also one of my favorites although I like the 1st more than the third but just slightly. Little known fact about Brahms. he hated cats and was known to hunt them with a bow and arrow in his neighborhood. |
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 19:17:56 GMT -8
When you don't feel good, there are no words that will satisfy. But hopefully at some point a light shines through.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:34:55 GMT -8
My ranking of Brahms' symphonies would be the 3rd, the 4th and the 1st almost equal and the 2nd. I will say the 4th movement in the 1st is outstanding. I rank it just below the final movement of his 3rd.
My high school took part of this 4th movement and made it our school anthem.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:36:36 GMT -8
He didn't much like Wagner either. And while I like much of Wagner's music, the man was a scoundrel.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:40:47 GMT -8
I always thought Leonard was as phony as a three dollar bill. Him and his f*@king radical chic crap.
He sat one row in front of me on a flight out of New York many years ago. He was a small man with a big head. And it looked like his tan was from a tanning bed. A strange looking character.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:46:54 GMT -8
Oh, we'll get through this. In a way, it is just as well. We weren't going to buy a lot of gifts and didn't want to spend much time on decorations. The KFF settled all of that for us. Believe it or not my blood pressure was 85/51 earlier this evening. So you can imagine that I don't feel particularly peppy. The KFF apparently plays havoc with your blood pressure, amongst other things. Sorry if I am getting too detailed.  |
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 19:50:49 GMT -8
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 21, 2021 20:01:49 GMT -8
One of the pieces of music mentioned in one of the books (by who, I forget) is Mozart's Sonata No. 21 in E Minor. It was noted that this was his only sonata? in E minor. And although it wasn't referred to as an especially great work it was thought to be a very interesting work.
I liked it immediately. (I happened to listen to the version by Bruno Zwicker & Rosi Molzer.)
But beyond some of Mozart's foot-tapping iconic works, I find his music a bit frivolous for my taste. I try though. I'll keep trying.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 21, 2021 20:09:59 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 20:22:35 GMT -8
That must have been fun.
Von Karajan worked both with the Berlin and Vienna Philharmonics, but I think there is no doubt that while he was there, no other orchestra on earth was a patch on the Berlin Philharmonic when it came to Wagner. To my mind, the brass section of that orchestra was unsurpassed. I tend to believe it still is.
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 21, 2021 20:33:52 GMT -8
I don't know as I would call it frivolous, but Mozart, Haydn, Bach and others could be repetitive. Mozart wrote over 40 symphonies and Haydn over 100. Although it has been years since I have listened to a symphony by either, I long ago determined that one could cover a good representation of their symphonies by picking out 4 or 5 and be done with it.
But Mozart's Requiem in D minor stupendous. A couple of his operas are excellent.
There are few composers whose complete works I would be happy to listen to. Brahms is one. Delius is one. Strauss is one. Wagner is one. Debussy is one. I will have to give more thought before I can comment on others.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 22, 2021 8:48:59 GMT -8
Perhaps that's part of it. I can appreciate that sometimes you have to be in the right receptive mood to listen to some of this stuff. But, hey, I guess as in any time and place, they were guilty of just cranking it out.
I'll give a listen to Mozart's Requiem in D minor (now listening to a version conducted by Sir Neville Marriner and the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields). I'm sure I'll like it. But there's this aspect of "If you heard one J.S. Bach, you've heard them all." I know that's sacrilege. But, good god, there's a guy who could certainly be repetitive.
Thus the fun of exploring beyond the five or ten renowned uber-masters. Love some of the things Mendelssohn does. Director Mahler, I've still got to try harder with. And, yes, the Brahm's 3rd symphony was rather good.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 22, 2021 9:06:36 GMT -8
Re: Mozart's Requiem in D minor
This is the kind of music that would played at the official banquet before the Apocalypse. But I like it.
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Post by artraveler on Dec 22, 2021 10:57:15 GMT -8
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Post by artraveler on Dec 22, 2021 11:04:16 GMT -8
I guess as in any time and place, they were guilty of just cranking it out. Remember Sturgons Law, "90% of everything is crap" Time has weeded out the percentage that is not crap. Just as a lot of the music of the 30s and 40s we still listen to is not crap there was a lot that barely qualified as noise. If anything in todays popular music I think the rule is closer to 99%. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Dec 22, 2021 11:29:56 GMT -8
This applies to all areas of life. It is called the wisdom of the ages. That which works will filter through and that which doesn't, generally, disappears. This is why, as Chesterton said, one should not go around tearing down walls until one knows why they were erected in the first place.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 22, 2021 13:20:13 GMT -8
Listening to Ma Vlast now.
Ma Vlast. Not to be confused with...
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 22, 2021 13:21:12 GMT -8
LOL! So true. So well said. Gotta steal that one.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Dec 22, 2021 15:24:10 GMT -8
I liked Ma Vlast. Not to be confused with…  I thought it was grand. To me, it seemed to have a musical purpose. Many classical pieces just strike me as perfunctory. This was definitely not repetitive. Not frivolous. And it knew how to end in grand style. As George Costanza would say, "I think it moved." |
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Post by artraveler on Dec 22, 2021 16:38:45 GMT -8
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