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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 18, 2023 15:18:49 GMT -8
I have finished the full three seasons of The Chosen and highly recommend it. The last episode dealt with Jesus feeding the multitude with 5 loaves and two fish and his walking upon the water. This series is not a literal depiction of the Bible. Many liberties are taken when the writers fill in portions of the Apostles' lives and thoughts. Such a thing would have driven my mother crazy, who did not like films about the Bible as they all contained scenes, and dialogue, which was not in the Bible. I am more relaxed as I do not see these films as teaching theology, rather they are an attempt to possibly fill-in-the-blanks regarding the volumes which we do not know about Jesus and his Apostles. Interestingly, I find some of the blank filling banal, but the moments which actually come out of the Bible can be very moving. Perhaps that is because I was brought up on The Bible and anyone who was raised in our Western Culture pre-1960, will be familiar with much of what is shown in The Chosen. The production values are good, particularly when one considers this is a crowd-funded venture. The sets and costumes are also good, although not perfect. For an independent film, the cast of actors in this series is outstanding. The actors seem to fit their roles perfectly, although I think some of the writing overdone for a couple of the characters, particularly Simon Peter. I found three actors particularly good. The first is Jonathan Roumie who plays Jesus. One would expect the lead character to be good, but Roumie plays Christ in a way which is very personal. I think his may be the best Jesus I have every seen on the screen. The second is Elizabeth Tabish who plays Mary Magdalene. Catholic tradition, starting in the 7th century, somehow conflated Mary Magdelene with another Mary, who was a sinful woman. "The Chosen" goes with this and displays Mary as a prostitute possessed by demons who was at the end of her rope, when saved by Jesus. Tabish plays the part beautifully. She is clearly haunted by the memory of her past, but places her trust and faith in Jesus. The third actor who I found very striking was Elijah Alexander who plays Atticus, a highly ranked Roman police official, who has apparently been sent from Rome to check what is happening in Judaea. He comes into contact with Jesus by accident, but is fascinated/intrigued by Jesus the man and quietly keeps an eye on his movements. The Atticus character has the smallest part of the three actors I have mentioned, but I believe Alexander is the best actor. He does a great deal with very little. A couple of other characters/actors also merit mention. The first is Erick Avari as Nicodemus. Nicodemus is a high-ranking Pharisee who is inspired by Jesus, but cannot bring himself to leave his life and position behind. The second is Paras Patel who plays Matthew. Patel's Matthew is clearly autistic, someone who is very good with numbers and bad with people. Patel does an excellent job with a difficult part. Interestingly, my son immediately took a liking to Matthew. He somehow related to the character. Each time we sat down to view an episode, my son would remember and ask about Matthew. During some of the episodes, there are occasional periods which are not overly interesting, but these don't much effect the overall quality of the series. Thankfully, there are scenes throughout the series which are very moving and inspirational. One would expect this from such a series and it delivers. I have rarely come upon such moving scenes, regardless the film. Overall, I would give the series an A-. I am looking forward to season four, which they are now filming. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 19, 2023 6:01:50 GMT -8
Good luck finding a buyer for that toxic, politically-correct sports network.
We don't often get clear numbers on the cost of liberalism. Here they are.
We must never forget that "liberalism" or "Progressivism" is just not another lifestyle, another fad to don or doff, and so what's the big deal? These people are, at heart, indecent.
Exactly.
That's also a nice, clear metric.
Very deserving of a rimshot.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 19, 2023 8:21:17 GMT -8
My "Oxford Compact Thesaurus" gives the following synonyms for indecent. Obscene, dirty, filthy, rude, coarse, naughty, vulgar, gross, crude, lewd, salacious, improper, smutty, off color, pornographic, offensive, prurient, sordid, scatological. There is no doubt these people are all of the above. Something like the below picture might come to mind.  Yet, this perv's actions are relatively innocuous when compared to what is presently being mainstreamed in our society. We are now confronting explicit evil.  |
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 19, 2023 14:21:16 GMT -8
More signs that the media in America is completely demonic. Youtube i.e. Google shuts down Sound of Freedom interviews The makers of the film advised that they expected the receipts to pass US$100 million today. It has yet to be released internationally and so far distributors in over 130 countries have asked to get the rights. Another US$200-US$300 million in ticket sales? |
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 19, 2023 15:21:35 GMT -8
Marjorie Taylor Greene, who I don't particularly like, does what needs to be done with the Biden investigations. The picture she is showing is tame compared to what is on Hunter's computer which the FBI has had since latest December 2019. According to several people who investigated the hard disk, there is child porn on the computer. Maybe that is why the Biden Administration stopped DNA testing at the border (testing to prove that children being brought in as "dependents" are actually the children of those bringing them across so as to insure the children are not being trafficked) you know, the pervs need new children to abuse. Hunter and whore in the buffThe apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  |
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 20, 2023 7:13:00 GMT -8
That's understandable. Perhaps that's the gist of Revelation 3:16: So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
I see that the series can be found on Netflix, The Roku Channel, and Tubi TV. I may watch it. But you have. So I have a real question. And I suppose I should set up a parameter. Given that not all of us are churchgoers; and given that even if we were, I now consider most churches to be problematic in regards to what they teach; therefore: What would you say is the way to walk the path today?
Maybe that's all we have, hot or cold. Or maybe more common are the Nicodemus types. Yes, the doctrine is inspirational, but only theoretically or momentarily. It's all well and good to be "good," but I've got things to do, etc.
The reality is messy and usually full of self-delusion. But having watched this series, is there anything you can say about translating what was back then to what is today? I mean, if Jesus was just walking around today with a bunch of (more or less) penniless disciples, would he even stand out given the plague of the "homeless" who are scattered all around? Should we give it all up and live in a cardboard box?
Much of what is taught today in church (or TV) is the so-called Prosperity Gospel, which certainly might appeal to Nicodemus. The Ten Commandments? Well, they're there and might even be talked about. But most of all God wants you to be happy, healthy, and wealthy. Good? Well...maybe. There could be room for that. It might be relevant.
I realize I haven't shut up and just let you answer the question. But in a time when vulgarity is rampant and normal, and given that no man is an island, how does anyone bring back anything noble and good from 2000 years ago and live it today?
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 20, 2023 7:18:31 GMT -8
Oh, goodness gracious, Peter, Paul, and Mary. How far we have sunk. We should long for the days when the worst you got was Billy Carter.
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Brad Nelson
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 20, 2023 8:37:53 GMT -8
I think it's cool that you have that father/son time together to watch something like this. How intriguing that Kung Jr. finds sympathy and interest with Matthew. No matter what one's abilities, there's so much more going on with other people than we know.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 9:11:11 GMT -8
This is absolutely the case. A couple of days back, I was putting some Neosporin cream on a mosquito bite which he had scratched to the point of it bleeding. I was explaining to him that this was necessary for his own good and out of nowhere he said, "It's to keep it from getting infected." I told him that he was correct.
I have no idea where this came from as I don't recall talking to him about infection. But he had it in his head from somewhere. He does this type of thing, that is he comes up with why something is being done without me telling him, quite often. This is progress.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 9:13:30 GMT -8
You can go directly to Angel.com and watch it for free. I do not know how Jesus would approach things today, but I have no doubt that he would be talking to many bums and others who the rest of us want nothing to do with. But unlike today's hypocritical enablers, I suspect he would tell them that they can do better and help them to try to live better lives. Those who listened would gain from it. Those who didn't, he would leave behind. People forget that he never said following him would be easy. In fact, he said it would be difficult. I believe Christianity can be broken down into two main branches. 1) Those who think that all one has to do is profess belief in Jesus as the Son of God and once they do they are saved no matter what, 2) Those who think one must profess Jesus as the Son of God and then try their best to be worthy of his love and grace by living the best lives they can. Not out of pride, but out of humility. Many, but not all, Protestants fall under the first category. The Catholics fall more under the second category as do some conservative Protestant denominations and, I believe, the Eastern Orthodox. (Don't quote me on that.  ) |
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 9:59:32 GMT -8
Of all the theological doctrines I know of, the one I most despise is Predestination. This is not only a silly notion, it is insidious and harmful.
Even if Predestination is true, it is a worthless doctrine. In this case, it is God who knows who is and who isn't destined to reach the Kingdom of Heaven. The human being, not being God (which too many seem to forget) has no idea of who will populate heaven. Thus the doctrine can logically have no meaning to any living person. In my opinion is is close to Gnosticism in its "exclusiveness." That it is meant to demonstrate how "special" some Christians are can be seen from the common use of "the elect" by those who believe in it.
God's gift to mankind is not just salvation. It is that God has given mankind a choice. We are not automatons, but conscious beings with the ability to gain knowledge and make reasoned choices. The corollary is that given our ability to think and choose, we are required to live with our choices. The one "Get Out Of Jail Free" card is also determined by a choice. If one makes this choice, it will override all our previous mistaken choices and we can start anew.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 20, 2023 15:36:11 GMT -8
Thank you for the benefit of your wisdom, Father Kung. I'm entirely offended at everything you said so there must be a lot of truth to it. Two-thousand years was along time ago. But assuming the reports are reasonably accurate, there are many quotes from Jesus such as this: That would seem to leave very little wiggle room. And then you have... That second quote is just too good to have been made up, and it suggests that "faith" is more of a verb than a static noun. I get what you're saying about the Protestants. There's that old works-vs.-faith argument. And, human nature being what it is (to try to do the least to get the most), there are a lot of specious arguments on the "faith" side of it, if you ask me. What I appreciate about St. Francis is that he combined them both. Faith may move mountains, but chances are you still have to dig some dirt. My thesis is that modern living leaves very little room for the "follow me" aspect of Jesus. Live a humble, good life, and be of some service to people. Obey the Ten Commandments, have faith in god that it will all somehow worked out in the end, and stand for truth, goodness, and beauty. And be as wise as a serpent when you need to. And work for justice as informed by wisdom, not the fake, race-, gender-, or class-based justice of Karl Marx. To do that, at minimum, you have to turn off your phone. My thesis is that we have a lot of "good works" that are anything but. They may not be immediately "catastrophic works." But there are a lot of people chipping away with their little lies, affectations, virtue signals, etc. If they would just clean up their own act first instead of basically buying an Indulgence via PC "good works," the world would be a better place. And I personally don't think you can be following Jesus while you are inhaling the secondhand smoke of Lucifer, as so many are doing today. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 17:38:55 GMT -8
From a purely logical point of view, I have always believed that if one truly has faith, one's life will naturally be changed accordingly and with that change will come the desire to try one's best to do good and glorify God through works. From a Biblical perspective, I take James 2:14-26 as confirmation of my logical conclusion. I do not believe that by simply saying, "I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God" one has secured salvation. The truth/sincerity of that profession will be seen by the change in one's life. Below is from the English Standard Version. I do not know why there are different fonts. 14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
When I read that, I am led to believe that even being a good person is not enough. Contemplating one's navel, being a religious hermit is not enough. One cannot perform "works" for oneself. One must help others. In my opinion, Christianity must be an active calling. I feel certain St. Francis understood this.
As to what good works are, I believe there is more than enough material in the Bible to define that notion. It has nothing to do with lying to people about their sins and such. It has to do with helping people find peace through truth, beauty and understanding. We should not be fooled by evil simply because it is being sold as good. More corruption through marketing at work. Accepting queer marriage, pretending there are 57 genders, giving some preference over others because of their race, and on, and on, and on. We, even they, know the truth. The difference it they are pretending lies are truth and we are not.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 20, 2023 18:31:57 GMT -8
I believe Christianity can be broken down into two main branches. I don't propose to tell Christians what or how they should worship, or not worship their God. As a secular Jew currently married to a Christian and having spent most of my life among Christians I think I have enough creds to voice an opinion. First and foremost there is nothing in Jesus teaching that cannot be found in Torah. Deautromony is loaded with quotes Jesus took. On that basis I can believe Jesus was a real person, a teaching rabbi. As for the son of G-d, nope. Nice try but it doesn't wash with me. However, after 2000 years of faith by millions of people it just doesn't make much difference. As religions go the first 2000 years are the hardest. So, maybe all those little faith bugs floating through the air are getting through to someone(s) attention. Maybe John Calvin and predestination has a place, it seems ungodly to me, but it could be. Maybe Saint Francis is right and peace will win out and maybe it is all a hoax. We are all getting closer to the time we find out, or not. To me there are two main streams of religious belief. The first is described as legalistic. I think that to be an over broad term. Most of Jewish theology centers on Torah and the instruction G-d gave Moses. To that extent it is focused on one central question, "how do people live together in a manner most conducive to have the maximum freedom and respect the rights of others to do the same?" Torah offers a method, imperfect it is true, but over the last 3000+ years it has proven to work. Christians, at least as Paul envisioned them. Have a different view. The central question is very different, "how can I have a direct personal relationship with G-d?" While Christians do not directly reject the legalism of Torah they do put it on the back burner on low heat. The focus is a personal one for without a personal relationship faith is impossible. It is, of course, that personal relationship that drives some Christians to excess. There is a fine line between belief and "kill them all, let G-d sort them out". As a Jew, I quit talking to G-d when the love of my life was murdered outside Jerusalem in 96. I cannot forgiver G-d for allowing that to happen, nor can I forgive those directly responsible. In that I am a stiff necked Jew. However, It doesn't mean G-d is not relevant. He does his thing and I do mine. If there is a judgement day I'll stand proud and say, "here I am, I did justice whenever possible, I treated my fellow humans and animals with respect and kindness and I loved beautiful women. |
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Post by artraveler on Jul 20, 2023 18:45:12 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 19:20:02 GMT -8
While the $300,000 settlement is good, I would have preferred criminal charges to also have been filed against the city officials, including cops, responsible for this outrage. As it is, the citizens will have to foot the bill for the crimes of the politicians and bureaucrats, who get away without penalty.
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 20, 2023 20:08:47 GMT -8
I believe the questions of relationship with God and legalism are related, but in a different way than you write.
Jesus is the one who first pointed this out. His instruction to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" is a first, as far as I know. All religions up to that time, (except household gods and such) were bound to a State of some sort and legalism was a tool of control. Along with legalism, one also ran into much ritual. Both are signs of control and, in my opinion, a loss of freshness, mystical connection to God or whatever one wishes to call it.
Christ brought something else. It was personal, not so much communal in the political sense which Rabbinical Judaism certainly was. That was probably largely due to Christianity's youth.
What is now considered Judaism had been around much longer, although not as long as many believe. For that one must go back to the Samaritan Torah or Karaites. Rabbincal Judaism also developed very particular laws which controlled the community. The community was not only religious, but political. One could say this was because the Jews were, more often than not, strangers in a strange land. Rabbinical Judaism did, after all, have its greatest development in the Babylonian Captivity. Such laws and ritual were required to hold the people together and separate from others. A people cannot be the Chosen of God, if they mix too much with others.
That said, it seems to me the earlier Judaism which held only the Torah as true, is something like Confucionism with a bit of Taoism thrown in. Of course, these comparisons are not perfect.
That is not to say that Christianity has not adopted a similar stance as regards legalism and ritual. It has in many ways. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches are full of ritual, which have nothing to do with anything written in the Bible. This is an area which was very important to many Protestant Churches. They wished to get away from legalism and ritual. Back to scripture. I leave it to others to judge the success of this pursuit.
From a truly spiritual, mystical point of view, I believe the greatest damage was done to Christianity upon its becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire. Thenceforth, the confusion regarding what was Caeser's and what was God's only grew. On the other hand, it was good for the political and cultural development of the West.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 21, 2023 6:19:52 GMT -8
Such laws and ritual were required to hold the people together and separate from others. A people cannot be the Chosen of God, if they mix too much with others. Very insightful, that is exactly what I am talking about. It is that cohesion that brought us through 2000 years of oppression in every part of the world. Not every Jew views the world as I do and it is probably a good thing. However, when the next wave of oppression faces us I will willingly join the most orthodox congregation. Not because I agree with the theology but because it is a life line in a hostile world. I will also be armed. A Jew who isn't willing to defend themselves and community is failing to understand what it means to be free. The first question at Passover is, "why is this night different from other nights?" The answer is alway because tonight we go forth in freedom. I have no quarrel with Christians or Christianity. On the whole Christians have been fair to me. I married two, with one agnostic and one Jew. I sup[pose in the view of the orthodox community I am assimilated but I stand by my orthodox brethren supporting their views and actions in general. I admit my path is not for everyone, Jewish or Christian. I tend to my own business and expect the same from others. Makes me a poor recruit for fundamentalism. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 21, 2023 7:54:07 GMT -8
I don't think the Jews will be a particular target come the next wave of oppression. The net will be spread much wider. That said, humanity is basically tribal and survival is one of the main reasons for this. Better to be part of a group with whom one basically agrees, and identifies, than not.
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Post by artraveler on Jul 21, 2023 9:17:18 GMT -8
I don't think the Jews will be a particular target come the next wave of oppression. I would like to believe that, but history has proven that oppression has a way of finding Jews first. We now have actual members of congress who are active anti-semites. No one one either side is calling them out for their vileness. I believe many democrats and a few republicans even support them. When the next nazi comes to my door he will be met with gunfire, here or in Israel. I don't expect the Christian world to lose much sleep over dead Jews. I pray I am wrong but there is a long history of neglect. |
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