|
Post by timothylane on Jan 31, 2020 10:37:18 GMT -8
Was that Oliver Twist from the musical movie Oliver!? (Interesting punctuation if you think about it.) It looks like him, though that movie was in color? Incidentally, the soundtrack to the movie is part of my regular sequence. I once noted that "You Gotta Pick a Pocket or Two" reflects both the GOP and Demagogue views on taxation.
"Why should we break our backs stupidly paying tax?" "When I see someone rich, both my thumbs start to itch."
I assume there's no difficulty guessing which is which.
I assume the various quotes are from Oliver Wendell Holmes -- probably mostly Sr., but the one about the fist sounds more like Jr.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 10:45:22 GMT -8
One of the themes we had been discussing is travel. Perhaps those among us who are widely traveled understand that once excellence is seen, mediocrity tends to be noticed everywhere. You might notice some of the exquisite architecture of old Japan, for example, and find the common boxes of today’s skyscrapers to n=be a little bland (if practical) in comparison. Conversely, you might see some of the true ugliness in some of the backward places and see the relative order and peace in Western countries in a new light. I’m going to make it hard for you to ever see a headline on a billboard or magazine in the same way ever again, Optical spacing is central to good text design. At small sizes (such as in a paragraph of text in a book), the spacing between letters would be (or should be) wider than in large headlines. Adobe’s (the dominant force in today’s typography) software will automate the task as well as give you a plethora of options. Even so, especially when it comes to what they call “display type” (type at larger sizes…headlines, etc.), the rules are different and automated software usually is never perfect (or even good). So some fine-tuning ought to be done. But if, for example, the ubiquity of pocket calculators and auto-correcting word processors have eroded our skills, so too have the skills of the graphic designer been eroded by automated software for typography. I don’t claim the sample below is definitive. Another designer might tweak the letters just a bit differently. But this should be pretty close. And now once you have seen behind the curtain, you will not now go a day without seeing typographical rookie mistakes made even by gigantic ad agencies in New York. Pair-kerning is when you reduce the space between letters to make them optically look better. In the example above, this is what Adobe Illustrator created at the default settings. If you’re reading this in a line of text in a book, it will be fine and is preferred (generally speaking). But if you were to take this same text and make it larger for a newspaper or magazine headline, it’s going to look awful. The lower example includes manual kerning between some of the pairs of letters. An uppercase “Y” is typically in need of it. Most modern software will account for this, but when used in headlines (if you’re a pro), you’re still going to want to do some fine-tuning by hand. Look around everywhere now and you will see the lack of care put into typography, even by supposed professionals.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 10:46:29 GMT -8
Please Sir, may I have some more?
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 10:52:54 GMT -8
LOL. Yes. Oliver Twist. We may be running out of Olives or Olivers, Mr. Kung. Oh...wait. I apologize if this is too obscure. This is in New York:
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 10:53:44 GMT -8
I've noticed this type of thing before. I just figured it was another one of many software problems which one runs into on a regular basis. I guess it has to do with the difficulty of making up for the problems of optical perception when sizes change, even though proportions remain constant.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 10:59:19 GMT -8
Was there an Olivetti House?
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:05:53 GMT -8
To be honest, I’m not running the absolutely latest version of Adobe’s software (for Illustrator). And, as I noted, there are some setting you can set. And that may include optical spacing proportional to the size of the type.
Even so, you first have to know those settings are there. And you then have to care about the issue. A friend of mine (a fellow printer) took a college course not long ago in printing and graphic design. He was astounded by the level of ignorance regarding the basics….and from the teachers, not the students (who, of course, are not going to be born with any of this information inside their heads)
I would imagine this same lament applies to every one of the other arts out there. Do you suppose modern artists are taking the same care with perspective and such as the old-school ones did?
Remember that engineering failure a couple years ago? It was the result of some student project. Do you think Boeing’s jets are falling out of the sky because the law of physics have changed or because you have a lot of hacks doing programming?
Granted, overwhelmingly the technology in our culture does work well…if only because there are immediate consequences (monetary and/or safety) if they don’t.
But for the arts? Forgetaboutit. Strangely, the most sophisticated art on the planet right now is computer-generated imagery (CGI). Interestingly, tens of millions are put into getting these things to be increasingly realistic and/or fancy. But it would appear that they don’t spend more than about $229.00 for the movie scripts. That’s bizarre, but fundamentally and analogously true.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:08:46 GMT -8
You're going to hate yourself for peeking: The Colgate-Palmolive Headquarters Building
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:11:50 GMT -8
This looks like some kind of olive enema tool:
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:13:53 GMT -8
Haven't had this in years. I'll have to see if I can find some at the deli:
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:27:46 GMT -8
Technically speaking, I think it’s just that. Have you ever messed with the margins, line space, typeface size, and such, in a book reader? It’s there that you can get an immediate understanding of the need for a bit of space for optimal legibility. And not just between the letters. Because screen sizes are limited on the Kindle and I want to reduce the amount of page turning as much as possible, I’ve fiddled with some of the spaces options (as well as the spacing options in book reading apps on my iPad). If you try to take too much space tween the lines (line spacing or leading‚ the distance between adjacent line of type) you’ll find the text is a little harder to read. The examples here is self-explanatory. Obviously you can scrunch things too tightly. But, technically speaking, the works are still there, not obscured in the least. (A more actual size version here.) But it’s just harder to read. Serif type is usually easier to read than san-serif type. The first example was Helvetica (san-serif). Here’s a sample using the serif typeface, Georgia. It’s set 10/16 (10 pts. in size wit 16 points of leading, pronounced “ledding”). The Helvetica sample was 10/14. Georgia, particularly for computer screens, is one of the most legible typefaces in existence and is usually what I use. But there are some other good ones as well.
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Jan 31, 2020 11:49:50 GMT -8
Well, the second version is much more readable than the first, though still not good.
Olivetti certainly had some sort of corporate office in New York (on Park Avenue) when I visited there for studying the cost-estimating program for printing. (I was being taught the system by the guy who wrote the standard program. I did the updated standard version as well as customized programs, operating out of the Louisville office.) I don't know how much of the building they occupied.
As long as you're doing Olivers, don't forget Oliver Wendell Douglas (Green Acres), played by Eddie Albert. The show was a development from Petticoat Junction, and they were linked to The Beverly Hillbillies. Bea Benaderet had nice roles on both, as Pearl Bodine and Kate Bradley.
There seems to be a bit of a misunderstanding. I had no trouble recognizing the image as Oliver Twist asking for more (there's even an occasional commercial making use of that scene, concerning the value of courtesy). I was wondering if that was the specific scene from the musical.
I know I've had that sort of pickled cold cut before, but I don't recall the name. I don't think I ever saw it in a store, so we never bought it.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 11:58:45 GMT -8
No, it’s excellent, although for my eyes it could be a little bigger. And remember we’re talking about seeing this text on a low resolution computer monitor.
My Kindle Paperwhite is set to the typeface, “Bookerly.” You can load your own typefaces on the unit as well. I did that once but it soon disappeared so I stayed with Bookerly which works well.
Mr. Kung, which typeface do you prefer on your Kindle?
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 12:13:02 GMT -8
Who knows? I used what I found on the "images" section of the DuckDuckGo search engine.
And to the best of my knowledge, an "olive loaf" is just baloney with some olives and pimentos put in it.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 13:10:34 GMT -8
I wish I still had the old Underwood typewriter that was my first hand-me-down of the kind. I can’t be sure what model it was because I don’t have it. But it looked something like this: But then they all tended to look something like this, at least the old ones. Another prominent brand was the Royal: Typing on the old Underwood was not easy. How odd that Apple’s latest keyboards (at least for me) have gone ergonomically backward as the can-do-no-wrong libtards, disconnect from reality regarding practical designs, run amok. It’s not that the current “chicklet-like” Apple keyboards are hard to press. It’s that they have no feedback to them. With the old Underwood, of course, the feedback for every keystroke was voluminous. And then there is the hell of correction tape. A necessity, but not easy to use and not always effective.
|
|
|
Post by timothylane on Jan 31, 2020 13:29:43 GMT -8
I started using a Royal in high school and kept on using it until I switched to doing everything on a computer. I eventually gave it to a friend for watching my place during a convention trip.
|
|
Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
|
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 31, 2020 14:16:49 GMT -8
I have no idea what happened to the old Underwood. It probably got sold in a garage sale or something like that. I’d have to rack my brain to figure out the order of computers I had or had access to. I had a VIC-20 computer at one point. I didn’t get all that much out of it. It’s primary use was to run the Omega Race cartridge that I had for it. But I wanted to dip my toe in the water and see what computers were all about. I think it was after the VIC-20 that I got an Atari 800 which was certainly more capable, especially after I added a hard drive and printer. That eventually broke and I then got an Atari 800 XL. We all had an Atari 2600, of course, but that wasn’t considered a computer. After the Ataris, I think there was a gap in years until I finally bought my first Macintosh, a Macintosh SE. It was expensive but necessary. Since then it’s been a trail of upgraded Macs unto this very day. My father had an old PC of some kind in his office at one point. That was before I had a Mac so it seemed fairly advanced to me. It was an old Sanyo computer. It was probably running window 3.1 or something like that. A beast to use and far from user friendly. Interestingly, I made use of my Atari 800 XL for keeping an index of street names for the production of a map. I’ve done my share of talking online about computers. And if you complain about some obviously ass-backward bit of software or hardware, you will be call an “old beard” who is just afraid of change. Basically these same brain-dead minions are the ones who so easily fell for Barack Obama, all slaves to newness whether it was actually better or not. “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.” These same idiots believe anything Butt-gig or any of the other Communists promise. But what I’m trying to say, is that I had no problem using whatever technology at hand to get the job done and trying something new. So I bought and used an old database program called SynFile+ for the Atari 800XL. It allowed me to keep a database of road names that then could be printed out for use in the production of commercial folded street map. I had no printer hooked to the Atari that was good enough for final output. I had some old dot matrix thingie. What I did was rather strange, perhaps even innovative for what I had. I bought a modem for my Atari and transferred by modem the exported and formatted text from SynFile+ into a Windows computer at the office also equipped with a modem. To make this work, I would have to run home, get connected, get coordinated with a fellow back at the office, and then with a bit of effort get the text file to send. It was an entire unapologetic Rube Goldberg setup. But it allowed me to print out the text on agood printer at the office and use that printout as finished artwork. This was all on me because my father really had no designs at that stage to make use of the computer. If I wanted to done, I had to do it. And as it turned out, if I wanted to move the graphics to a computer, I had to buy it myself, which I did. But it wouldn’t have gotten done otherwise and the conversion from presstype and X-Acto to computers would never have been done. It probably took me ten years to pay down my MasterCard balance. I was learning how to do graphics on the Macintosh almost from day one. My first version of Adobe Illustrator was “Illustrator 88” which is basically 1-point-something software. The number stands for the year it was put out. They didn’t stay with that naming convention. Now, of course, the industry has moved on. Most content now is probably involved in video production of some kind. But I have no interest in that. Not old-beard but old-school when it comes to the primacy of books and photographs. As much as I love a good movie (and there is certainly a lot of money in various forms of video production work), that is the realm of glib and superficial. Still, it’s interesting that there has arisen some kind of market or challenge for movies shot entirely on phones. I can dig that. I think that’s a splendid use of technology. Frankly, given the low cost of phones (let alone good digital video cameras), and the relative easy of using digital effects and editing software, we could see an end-run made around the big studios. Sure, they are still probably important in regards to distribution. But I think it won’t be all that long before the next Oscar for best picture goes to a phone-camera movie (or something not far from that) produced on a dime but by people with an enormous talent for story telling. It is this lack of talent in the current industry that produces so much garbage.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 15:16:39 GMT -8
I use the Caeclia font. The size I use us the 5th from the left if you open to the font icon. I use the least amount of margin, but greatest amount of line spacing. I read a lot in low lighting, and I find this combination suits me well. The Helvetica is not bad, but in my mind I find it suites modern books better than the classics I read.
What I find interesting is that so many of these types were designed in the late 1400's, 1500's and 1600's. Given that Gutenberg developed movable type printing around 1450, it is amazing how many types came out very quickly thereafter.
From my point of view, I would agree with your assessment. It is a much lighter, open layout, easy to read.
The first layout will cause problems with missing words while reading, blurring and eye strain.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 15:20:06 GMT -8
Olive load what I call it and I am a big fan. It should be a much better quality meat than one gets when buying normal "baloney." Furthermore, there should be some more spices than are usually used in making American baloney.
Mortadella is the base, I believe.
Mortadella is a fancy way of saying baloney. But the Italians do some nice things with it.
|
|
|
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 31, 2020 15:32:23 GMT -8
It would seem these same dummies have not figured out that this built-in obsolescence is a business model which is designed to keep the software companies reaping a never-ending stream of revenue. (And not only the software companies.)
|
|