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Post by timothylane on Dec 26, 2019 15:57:04 GMT -8
Campaigning among Polish-Americans in 1972, Spiro Agnew compared Nixon to Jan Sobieski, who was perhaps the greatest king of the Polish republic. I like his message to the Pope. (Incidentally, a friend told me once that a very popular historical Pole is "Iron Felix" Dzherzhinsky, founder of the Cheka, because he killed more Russians than any other Pole in history.)
The French alliance with the Ottomans was pure power politics. From the time of Charles V, France was basically at war with the Habsburgs, who controlled most of its land border through the Netherlands, the Holy Roman Empire, the Franche Comte, and Spain. It was very natural for His Most Christian Majesty to ally with the Ottomans. Since the article mentions the great Polish victory in 1920, which enabled them to take sizable Belarussian and Ukrainian lands beyond the Curzon Line, I will note that the French assisted them that year against the Bolsheviks. General Weygand was sent to advise them on how to fight the battle -- though the Poles think Pilsudski didn't need it and made his own decisions anyway.
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Post by timothylane on Jan 15, 2020 16:37:08 GMT -8
The Babylon Bee reported on a small Christian study group that was disappointed that the Bible seemed to have nothing relevant to today's events. There are all these natural disasters such as earthquakes, not to mention wars (and rumors of wars). They took a break from studying the Gospel of Matthew to watch a set of videos. The link is:
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kungfuzu
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Post by kungfuzu on Jan 25, 2020 18:07:18 GMT -8
My God! Will miracles never cease? Here is a main-line Christian denomination promoting actions according to scripture. I had to double check to see if this wasn't a Babylon Bee article. Sex in marriage |
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Post by timothylane on Jan 25, 2020 19:49:37 GMT -8
I understand your surprise. It's unbelievable that the Anglicans are doing this. I wonder what this will mean for the Episcopalians, who have committed themselves to supporting the militant homosexual agenda. Will they break away? Will this encourage conservative Episcopalian churches to align themselves with the Anglicans and claim their existing church properties? Enquiring minds want to know.
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 26, 2020 9:22:05 GMT -8
Good for the Church of England. I happen to agree with that. Not many do. For instance, Dennis Prager believe couples should sleep together first to find out if they are compatible. I think that’s the California in him coming out. I think we could say we are of one mind here that having solid ideas is essential even if we fuzzy them up a bit in actual living. Without an ideal firmly in mind we will quite easily rationalize our ways to the most beastly behavior. I’ve been binge-watching some Downton Abbey lately. So much of the writing is very hackish. But once in a while there is some good dialogue. The girls were discussing sex and marriage in their usual oblique way and Violet Crawley (Maggie Smith) said something like: “We must not try to find happiness in a marriage. We must make it so.” Many of these beliefs will be intentionally hilarious to the British audience for which they are primarily written. They are punchlines, self-evidence that the Victorian era is so over, and happily so. But I know that many of you read an excellent article that was at Townhall: We Have Miseducated Boys and Girls. If Maggie Smith articulates the one extreme, the other extreme is on display all around us and I would say it’s even more ridiculous and destructive. |
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Post by artraveler on Feb 22, 2020 7:37:41 GMT -8
IMPORTANT BREAKING NEWS Thomas D. Williams, Ph.D writing in what used to be called a newspaper, Wall Street Journal, says that mainstream churches in the US are losing members and evangelical non denominational are growing. www.breitbart.com/faith/2020/02/21/wsj-mainstream-christian-churches-languish-evangelicals-thrive/I admit I don't have a dog in this fight but it wasn't evangelicals who marched my people into ovens 80 years ago. It was Methodists, Lutherans, Calvinists, and Roman Catholics who stood by and said, "what can we do?" Sometimes G-od's punishment takes a while to manifest itself. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2020 8:01:29 GMT -8
One commenter writes: Right or wrong, that’s been my view as well. And when anyone marches people off to mass murder, we all should have a dog in that fight. I’m Spartacus, and all that. That reminds me, now that it’s available, maybe it’s time to take on Dennis Prager's The Rational Bible: Genesis. Who can argue with this provocative reviewer? Given that seemingly a majority of Jews practice “social justice,” not the religion of the Torah, that goes for them as well. |
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Post by timothylane on Feb 22, 2020 8:13:52 GMT -8
Well, actually it was atheists (Nazis and Communists) who mass murdered Jews, though in the Soviet Union this was arguably mostly a continuation of the pogroms of Russian Orthodox peasants and officials. There actually was some opposition to Nazi atrocities from German Lutherans and Catholics, including hostility to the early stages of Nazi anti-semitism. By the time the Holocaust formally got started after the Wannsee Conference, such opposition was a lot riskier (and there's always the matter of how many people knew how much).
Of course, there was the anti-Hitler plotting, which started trying to assassinate him in March 1943 and several times thereafter until they were purged following July 20, 1944, most of them dying horribly. There was also the White Rose movement in the Munich area, which also ended fatally.
On the other hand, many in the Allied camp (especially FDR) who were generally mainstream Christians did nothing to help out when they might have been able to accomplish something. (Despite being attacked by later anti-papists as "Hitler's Pope", Pope Pius did oppose Hitler and assist the Jews, though he wasn't very open in his sentiments and also opposed Stalin.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2020 8:21:02 GMT -8
Christians like to call America “A Christian nation.” In the case of England and their successful efforts to eradicate slavery, they could at the time make that claim. But at the time, there were Christians in America going to church hearing about the brotherhood of man all while keeping slaves.
I don’t know what percentage of the population of Germany was Lutheran or Catholic. But they certainly were not a “Christian nation” to have unleashed Hitler on the world.
What we can understand is that in many cases, Christianity is but a veneer. The real driver of a culture is often other things. And certainly that was the case in Germany.
If a nation of Christians cannot nip in the bud either slavery or Nazism, then it’s a fair question to ask “What good is it?” I think it’s very fair, in particular, for Jews to ask this question. At the same time, they need to get their own house in order.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 22, 2020 9:05:43 GMT -8
If a nation of Christians cannot nip in the bud either slavery or Nazism, then it’s a fair question to ask “What good is it?” I think it’s very fair, in particular, for Jews to ask this question. At the same time, they need to get their own house in order An excellent point. We do need to get our house in order. For too long Jews have taken a default position of social justice and ascribed it to Torah. The problem is that the social has taken all the oxygen and justice has been a passing thought. The recreation of Israel has given us an opportunity to discard much of the protective encumbrances of the last 2000 years of diaspora. Change is difficult, especially for a people who have traditionally been guests, welcome or not, in every country. America changed that. While not always welcomed with open arms, America gave us space to be ourselves and in many cases that meant becoming different from our immigrant forefathers. The ghetto attitude was cast off and a new Jew was born on these shores. Confident in our heritage and our history. American Jews were among the first settlers in Ottoman Palestine in the 1890s and funding to support those settlers came from organizations like the UJA and in Europe from the Rothschild family. Today, there are millions of Jews, from the most deluded progressive to the most conservative ultra-orthodox who owe their existence to American and European Christians, the righteous among nations. On Mount Herzel next to Yad Yashem is a garden of trees, one tree planted for every righteous person not of our faith who saved Jewish lives. I don't know how many trees there are but it is an entire forest. If forced to chose my vote come down for the evangelicals as the best friend the Jew could have. There are shared values and ideals that cannot be broken. Franz Rosenzweig, in the Star of Redemption predicts a time when Christianity and Judaism unite in a common effort. Perhaps that time is not far off. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2020 11:39:16 GMT -8
This is a very good thing and a very good forest. Here’s that book: The Star of Redemption. Going by one review, that might be a difficult read. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 22, 2020 12:02:22 GMT -8
As I have long said, conservative Christians, i.e. evangelicals, are really Jews they just don't know it.
In one of our strings, I once pointed out that the split between the Christians and the Jews in the first century or so was the most far-reaching tragedy in Western history. Imagine what might have been had this schism not come about.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 22, 2020 12:04:01 GMT -8
that might be a difficult read. Jewish religious existentialism a difficult read? I recommend you start with Martin Buber, I and Thou, as a warm up. There are large parts of Star that are very readable. He has a long section on Islam and why it is not an Abrahamic religion and completely pagan. You can get an idea from the summaries by David Goldman who has written quite lot about Rosenzweig. If I recall correctly it was in Asia Times as his nom de guar Spengler. |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2020 18:05:25 GMT -8
That’s a huge inducement right there, Artler. I and Thou by Marin Buber. The Kindle edition is only $7.50. Religion is about reality having a story. The alternative would seem to be self-annihilating. Can meaningless without structure cause or create anything? Can one actually conceive of reality that could exist if it was a purified form of atheism/materialism, something coming from nothing, order coming from chaos, love coming from a vacuum? Both Judaism and Christianity tell the story of God who is not a Tribal Chieftain of Convenience dressed up in holy garb. They tell the story of God who not only started history but entered it to help fashion men into something more than base animals. He was not a lucky rabbit’s foot to be used, but a real entity to be worshiped and related to as best as possible from our position. Faith in Him was a reason to endure hardship, not a God to excuse our own bloody feats. I’m sure Buber could explain in detail why Islam is not an Abrahamic religion. I think it’s a simple as noting that theirs is a reduced god who is the Tribal Chieftain stand-in. This God offers power for believers, and excuses for barbarism, while the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob offer fellowship with God and a whole lot of "thou shalt nots." Islam’s God praises death and blood. The Christian God bled for his people. The Jewish God offers life and justice if there is also obedience and worship. In short, God’s ways are to be man’s ways in Judaism and Christianity. In Islam, man’s most base ways are said to be God’s ways. I don’t think Dennis Prager has to jump through many hoops when he connects Judaism and Christianity under the general term, “ethical monotheism.” |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Feb 22, 2020 19:50:07 GMT -8
With all due respect to Jews everywhere, I think there’s a lot to be said for that. I’ve never made any particularly study of Judaism. But I think I am already a Jew. I think like an old-school Jew. It’s just that there’s a yuge cultural component to being a Jew that I can’t intersect with. That said, there are a whole lot of Jews whose theology has been polluted by the cultural component (namely: Leftism).
Jesus was thoroughly Jewish (possibly divine as well) but was highly critical of the Deep State of his time even while adhering to old-school Judaism. I think it would probably serve most Christians to get in touch with this fact that Jesus was old-school, not Buddy Jesus.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 22, 2020 20:44:32 GMT -8
I believe the root message of Christianity deals with the sin of PRIDE. A person cannot earn redemption, i.e. one cannot do it by oneself, i.e. you should not be proud for you have done nothing to merit such self puffery. To me, pride is the most basic sin and the most common defect in human behavior. And many other sins and wrongful actions spring from it.
I believe this focus on pride is perhaps the major difference between Christianity and other beliefs.
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 22, 2020 21:45:43 GMT -8
Was it a coincidence that Jesus was a Jew and first revealed himself to them? I think not. Among other things, the Jews, especially the Pharisees, were a particularly prideful bunch. They prided themselves for their hair-splitting exactitude in interpreting and following the Law, as well as in displaying their adherence to the Law. Such practices as the wearing of tefillin on one's head and arm seems to be a display of showing one as being literally "holier-than-thou." It sends a very loud message that we are separate, we are better. I have never liked nun's habits or burkahs for similar reasons.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 22, 2020 22:02:58 GMT -8
I think it would probably serve most Christians to get in touch with this fact that Jesus was old-school, not Buddy Jesus. I like the idea of terming it Buddy Jesus. Describes perfectly what is expected by a large number of organized? religion practice we see today, The viral infection of leftism has rendered mainstream religion powerless in the most important aspect of religion, morals. Pastors, Preachers and Rabbis quake in fear that they may actually say to someone, "that is a sin". In addition to the Buddy Jesus I would add Pal Moses to the mix, Maybe the 613 commandments laid down in Torah are just not for everyone. |
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Post by kungfuzu on Feb 22, 2020 22:10:37 GMT -8
The Jews have flourished in America as nowhere else outside Judea and Israel. Ironically, the other place, outside of America, in which Jews flourished was Germany. This is one reason so many German Jews were heartbroken when the Nazi's came to power.
There is an interesting book on the relationship between the Jews and Germans.
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Post by artraveler on Feb 22, 2020 23:31:13 GMT -8
In 1492 Spain finally got the Moslems out of Iberia. With this success the Spanish monarchy also decided they did not need Jews any more and tossed out Jews who would not convert followed in lockstep with the inquisition. Jews leaving Spain went, mostly to three places, Germany, Rome, and the Ottoman Empire (Palestine). In Germany they were the core of what would be the great German enlightenment. In Rome they received some protection from the Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia) mostly to help him salvage his financial problems. In Palestine they settled in the city of Safed and except for high taxes, applied to all non Moslems, were left alone until the late 19th century. Safed was a city of culture and learning with numerous schools and Yeshivas.
There was a smaller continent that made their way to the colonies and established the first synagogue in New World built in Recife in 1640 for Portuguese and Dutch Jews although, undoubtably there were Jews here long before this first synagogue was built.
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