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Post by timothylane on Apr 30, 2020 21:20:57 GMT -8
Well, I can definitely see the AUGUST there, preceded by ICORD and followed by OR (though the R might be an H in both cases). There's an X at the end, and I think some letters too faded to read at all (good photo of it, though).
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Post by timothylane on Apr 30, 2020 21:26:21 GMT -8
Looking at wikipedia again, I found one coin had CONCORDIAE on its obverse, so this may have a shortened version of it. In fact, it may have the whole word, with the first CO and part of the N barely visible. But I couldn't figure out what the part after AUGUST could be. (Incidentally, the G is actually printed out like C. This is why Gaius, as in Gaius Julius Caesar, was often given as Caius.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 30, 2020 21:39:38 GMT -8
After the “X” there is a “V” which you can probably make out. Definitely “CONCORD” on tge left. At the bottom it could be a date. It’s hard to tell but I think I can make out a “C” and an “X” on the original. It’s very hard to tell. It could be something like “CTPO” as on this one perhaps:  It does seem to be common to have some short text on the bottom back. Here’s another example:  |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 30, 2020 21:49:27 GMT -8
Here's one where the back is very similar and could give a clue to what it says at the bottom.  |
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 30, 2020 22:12:06 GMT -8
Here’s a higher resolution shot of the back.  HiResCamIf you compare it to the other coin just above (which seems to read (COSIII or COSIIN at the bottom), the Roman coin I have might read COSIN. It would seem to be something along those lines. |
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Post by timothylane on May 1, 2020 6:14:34 GMT -8
I think you're probably right about the reverse of one of the coins. I don't think they have any dates, which would have been in Roman numerals. Some of these extra messages I can't fully make out, such as the ORTOR (it looks like) on the reverse of one coin. It's not like I ever learned Latin (my high school taught it, but at earlier grades so I never took it).
I noticed that the coin you linked to referred on the obverse to NERO CLAUD CAESAR AUG (in other words, Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus), which could refer to either Claudius or Nero -- the name was common in that family, and Nero got it after being formally adopted as Claudius's heir. His original name was Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus.
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 1, 2020 7:11:50 GMT -8
It’s interesting that that coin the Mr. Flu linked to on eBay is selling for $212.50. However, perhaps in England Roman coins are very common. They’re not selling for all that much at V-Coins. But there is a Nero coin going for $1305.06. I assume it’s the name of the emperor that sets the price to a large extent. It really would be fun to prattle around the English countryside in search of a coin. I’m not sure what the pickings are these days…there or anywhere else. |
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Post by kungfuzu on May 1, 2020 8:32:38 GMT -8
I wonder if coins with Nero on them are more rare. If so, is this because the following emperors had coins with Nero's image on them, melted down and re-minted?
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 1, 2020 8:43:28 GMT -8
Someone takes up this topic at this forum. “All of the above” seems to be a likely answer — included that his coins were minted in better metals, including the mysterious orichalcum. I wouldn’t spend a dime for one of Nero’s coins but would love to have a Clavdivs coin. |
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Post by timothylane on May 1, 2020 8:46:57 GMT -8
That's probably what happened. One of the art museums Elizabeth and I visited on one of our eastern trips (it would have been in Baltimore, Richmond, or Philadelphia) had a nearly complete statue of Caligula -- one of only two such surviving. Note that neither Caligula nor Nero was deified by the Senate (though Caligula claimed to be a god, as did Elagabalus nearly 2 centuries later), and in fact Nero committed suicide after the Senate outlawed him. Getting rid of their honors (including coins) would be no surprise.
Of course, Nero was also Claudius's prenomen, so the coin Brad linked to could have been either emperor.
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 1, 2020 8:53:06 GMT -8
Wiki has the names listed as: Claudius: TIBERIVS CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS Nero: NERO CLAVDIVS CAESAR AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 1, 2020 9:19:37 GMT -8
According to this forum discussion, the "S" and "C" on coins mean: Also... |
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Post by timothylane on May 1, 2020 10:09:01 GMT -8
The usual reference to the Senate would be SPQR for Senatus Populsque Romanus (Senate and People of Rome). In fact, I've been surprised not to see that anywhere on the coinage. As late as AD 190 the Senate played a major role. (After Commodus's assassination, they voted Pertinax emperor. He tried to reform the Praetorian Guard and thus had a very short reign, after which the Guard auctioned off the imperium. This was unacceptable to many, and Septimus Severus brought in an army -- I think from Illyria -- to take care of matters.)
I think Claudius started out as a Nero, but Roma names changed frequently. After he became emperor, he may have changed things to hearken back to the unpopular but respected and capable Tiberius rather than the hated and incompetent Gaius Caligula (I understand he really disliked that cognomen, a childhood nickname from when he was more or less an army mascot for Germanicus's Army of the Rhine). |
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Post by kungfuzu on May 1, 2020 10:18:02 GMT -8
If one knows his history, one could almost feel sorry for Little Boots.
At the start of his reign, he displayed no signs of the viciousness history remembers him for. It was only after a serious illness during which he suffered a high fever for a prolonged period, that he started acting in the way history recalls.
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 2, 2020 8:35:16 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on May 2, 2020 9:18:16 GMT -8
US$10 million is alotta do re mi for a somewhat worn coin.
I admit I like the two Roman coins better. The portrait on the gold coin is strikingly modern looking.
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Post by timothylane on May 2, 2020 9:27:48 GMT -8
I think the message on the reverse side of the first coin is PAX AUG, "pax" being Latin for peace (e.g., the Pax Romana) and Aug short for Augustus. I suspect it was mainly an aspiration, rarely a reality, but never mind.
A 1794 American coin . . . remarkable. Foreign coins were often used then -- for example, a "bit" referred to a piece of a Spanish silver dollar amounting to an eighth of it (it was also referred to as a fip). British coins also circulated. I suppose they would have been made in the Philadelphia mint. I wonder when they first started minting coins there. Better than printing paper continentals, anyway. ("Not worth a continental.")
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 2, 2020 9:39:16 GMT -8
That gold Roman coin looks as if it was printed yesterday. And I think that portrait of Hadrian on the other coin is very good as well.
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Post by timothylane on May 2, 2020 9:44:49 GMT -8
I checked in wikipedia, and Maxentius was one of the tetrarchs following Diocletian. He was defeated and killed (supposedly drowned in flight) by Constantine at the Milvian Bridge of "In this sign, conquer" fame. Unfortunately, I don't know much of what's written on his coin (presumably the one KFZ liked so much -- it's certainly in good shape, and gold to boot). It has IMP, of course, and MAXENTIUS AUG. But what's between the IMP and the MAXENTIUS is only partially decipherable and doesn't quite seem to be either CAESAR or Maxentius's prenomen or nomen. And what follows AUG is P something. Anyone have any idea what that would mean?
I also studied the American coin a bit more, and noticed that the stars on the obverse numbered 15, the number of states after Kentucky became a state in 1792 and before Tennessee entered in 1796. At the bottom of the reverse, there's a shape that I suspect was intended to be the Liberty Bell. (We saw that, naturally, on our 2001 visit to Philadelphia.)
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Post by Brad Nelson on May 2, 2020 10:01:14 GMT -8
Timothy, we should all be checking our drawers and cubbyholes for one of them dollars. But it's amazing how much history a coin portrays, either written right on it or the history surrounding it.
And that might be a very good artistic reading of the reverse side. Those ribbons do seem to be drifting down to form the shape of a bell.
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