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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 11:32:37 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 11, 2020 11:32:37 GMT -8
Clara
Clara is an Amazon rental. It might be found on other providers. This is a hard movie to classify. It has a nice love story and is technically science fiction. Generally, a combination that is not compatible. To add to the mix, it is low budget and Canadian, all that adds up and it is reason to reject it outright. I rented last night when it was raining, cold and nasty outside and we were warm and snuggled up in the house, except the dog who doesn’t like thunderstorms.
The story revolves around Dr. Isaac Bruno (Patrick J. Adams) a post -Doc at Toronto University whose life has not been good recently. He and his wife are divorced after the death of their child. He has become a hard-nosed cynic. His Ph.D. is in astronomy, his obsession is finding proof of life in the galaxy. To this end he ventures beyond his authority and uses a. research professors telescope time for his own project. This results in his suspension from the university. He decides to continue research on his own and advertises for a research assistant, no one applies.
After a night of drinking with a friend he comes home and finds a woman, Clara (Troian Bellisario) waiting on his doorstep. He suspects her reason for asking for the job is his offer of room and board for the research assistant position. Of course, this is the beginning of the love story. Clara is enigmatic, she claims to have been over the world and speaks, Spanish, French, Japanese, and Afrikaans. The two find a possible candidate for life in the data and as they are about to publish another researcher publishes first.
They are devastated, and at first Isaac is ready to give up, however Clara will not let him just quit. It is about here that the viewer starts getting hints that Clara may not be just a drifter but perhaps a traveler from the stars. She has flashbacks to what appears to be a superior technological civilization and her health is suffering from an undefined auto-immune disease. Clara collapses and in hospital she is dying. Her last words to Isaac are, “I wish I could see your face when you find it”.
Isaac renews his efforts and finds and an anomaly that suggests a space station of planet size about 200 light years distant. Two years later his find is confirmed by NASA and the aliens make contact with earth and ask specifically for him. The second message from the aliens is a music file of a Bob Dylan song that he and Clara shared.
Is Clara an alien traveler from 200 light years away or is she a hypersensitive human subtlety manipulated from trillions of miles away by aliens? Perhaps she is just crazy. Even crazy people get things right. The question is open-ended although, I admit I tend to favor the Clara is an alien theory.
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 11:49:40 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 11, 2020 11:49:40 GMT -8
This does sounds interesting. There are many stories of odd forms of contact, such as the alien message that leads to the construction of a computer that creates an artificial human (I'm weak on the details of a pair of books I read decades ago). This was Fred Hoyle's A for Andromeda and Andromeda Breakthrough.
Hoyle is better known for such books as The Black Cloud, a disaster novel that turns into an alien contact novel (with the title character, the Black Cloud itself), and Ossian's Ride. The latter involves an industrial revolution based on modern science developed by the Industrial Corporation of Eire in a portion of Ireland (county Kerry, in essence). Both, I might add, are quite entertaining. And it turns out the new scientific developments in ICE don't exactly have an earthly origin.
Another interesting alien contact story, again one in which this isn't learned until the end, is Ballroom of the Skies by John D. MacDonald. He's better known, of course, for Travis McGee, though he also did some nice science fiction and fantasy (the best probably being The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything).
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 15:17:45 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 11, 2020 15:17:45 GMT -8
The famous Frank Drake equation rests at the heart of the search extra terrestrial life (SETI). When you work the numbers the possibility of life outside of earth is very high. However, the distances involved trillions of miles seems to limit the possibility of contact. There are only two possibilities that another life form has to interact with humans.
1. Benign with total altruistic intentions. A sufficiently technological civilization might have these attributes 2. Hostile, of course this is the area of every science fiction movie and book ever made. It would be comforting to believe in benevolent aliens, but option 2. seems more likely.
The Drake equation is: N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible (i.e. which are on our current past light cone);
R∗ = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations) fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space[
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 15:36:14 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 11, 2020 15:36:14 GMT -8
Not every science fiction alien contact movie involves alien invasion. Obviously both Close Encounters of the Third Kind and ET involve benevolent contact, although one might wonder how the pilots of that World War II flight who return decades later feel about it. The Day the Earth Stood Still isn't exactly an invasion movie, rather one in which Earth is to be quarantined. I think It Came From Outer Space, despite the problems, just involved the equivalent of a crash landing. (The same idea was used in a Kolchak episode.) The 27th Day is a Cold War version of The Day the Earth Stood Still (though the book is a bit different in that respect).
But there obviously was The War of the Worlds in its many versions, and many movies on that same theme since then. Twilight Zone had various versions of the idea, at least two ("The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street" and "Will the Real Martian Please Stand Up?") of which did feature aliens bent on conquest, and "To Serve Man" a mordant variant of that (even if this doesn't become clear until the end).
The Drake equation is interesting, but we have no idea what the correct values are for several parameters, making it ultimately sheer guesswork in the guise of science. There's a lot of that going around.
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 16:01:37 GMT -8
Post by kungfuzu on Jan 11, 2020 16:01:37 GMT -8
In the original book, didn't the invaders come from under ground?
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 17:12:17 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 11, 2020 17:12:17 GMT -8
In the novel The War of the Worlds, no one knows what their lives on Mars were like aside from what they could figure out afterward from the remnants of the invasion. The Martians arrived in a series of cylinders which landed on Earth. Those landing sites were craters of some sort, but I believe the tops were above the surface.
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 17:41:31 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 11, 2020 17:41:31 GMT -8
It is true we don't have exact numbers to fit the equation. However, I believe Drake based his assumptions on the 10% rule. Thus to arrive at N a number we can estimate as the number of potential systems we might be capable of communicating with. Following with 10% for each of the other variables the final number is in the thousands.
The movie asks a very important question. Given the high number of potential civilizations, why haven't we made contact? Perhaps we just are not advanced enough to be interesting, that may be a good thing or a bad thing. Imagine if your dog suddenly could communicate, the charm might wear off quickly as you find your self debating the quality of doggie treats.
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 18:03:28 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 11, 2020 18:03:28 GMT -8
I believe that question is known as the Fermi Paradox. If there are all these aliens out there, then where are they? Of course, if no one is able to find some way to dodge the speed of light limitation, there might simply be no aliens within close enough range to visit.
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Clara
Jan 11, 2020 18:25:01 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 11, 2020 18:25:01 GMT -8
I believe that question is known as the Fermi Paradox. That's right. I had forgotten Fermi. Of course, if you watch Ancient Aliens on history channel then you get the impression the aliens have been running amok for thousands of years. I believe there is a brief mention in the movie of Fermi.
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 9:38:41 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 12, 2020 9:38:41 GMT -8
Sounds interesting. I'll see if I can find this.
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 11:28:28 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 12, 2020 11:28:28 GMT -8
I think seeing those billions of galaxies is enough of a justification for SETI. It’s a very large universe indeed. However, the Drake equation is, at best, pseudo-science. It has very little basis in fact.
The basic syllogism of looking for ET goes something like this:
The earth has life. There are a lot of planets out there. Therefore there are a lot of planets with life.
That’s all fair enough on the face of it. And I think it’s most likely true. But the real pseudo-scientific element (basically quackery) comes in with the assumption that life is nothing but a function of chance.
And there’s a real problem with that given what we know about the real world on this real earth. The thing anyone who believes in Darwinian evolution must do is to prove exactly how the first cell came to be — or even in principle could ever come to be from random processes.
The first cell is an enormously complex machine. As a whole, it is obviously irreducibly complex. As Jonathan Wells notes, those looking for the spontaneous creation of life should first take a cell, put it in a glass of water, puncture the cell (so that it’s innards spread out all over that glass of water), and then wait for the cell to spontaneously generate. After all, all the ingredients for life are there. And if one glass of water isn’t enough, imagine a trillion trillion trillion glasses of water over a trillion trillion years.
If that sounds implausible, it’s probably because it is implausible. Statistical analyses I think has fairly shown that you couldn’t even produce a hundred-amino-acid-length protein in that amount of time (and number of chances), let alone a suite of several hundred, some of them much longer than 100.
Life is here, after all. Something must have caused it and surely (whatever the cause is), it could act on other planets. Therefore I think SETI (despite the ludicrous Drake equation) is a rational and interesting thing to do. But there is no reason to believe that life need exist merely as a factor of numbers or of time.
So what we have here in the pseudo-scientific Drake equation is a firm commitment to the idea of “given enough time” that anything is possible. We’re basically talking about the million monkeys at a typewriter stumbling onto writing a Shakespearean play. Only the magical words of “evolution” or “billions of planets and billions of years” can act as an incantation to give the veneer of plausibility.
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 12:19:12 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 12, 2020 12:19:12 GMT -8
I don't remember it very well (I'm not even sure of the author), but there was actually a story about some scientist getting a bunch of monkeys to pound on typewriters to see what would happen. They actually did produce copies of literature, and indeed that was all they were doing. Another scientist, who didn't like the implications of this utterly implausible or even impossible event, decided to kill off the monkeys.
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 12:26:47 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 12, 2020 12:26:47 GMT -8
As far as I am aware, every known computer simulation to try to prove Darwinism has had the programming pre-loaded at the front with intelligent choices.
As for the movie aspect of Clara, it matters little if the Drake equation is complete rubbish or not. This is what people believe…and act on. Whether the movie is any good as a piece of drama is another thing. One reviewer noted that although he wasn’t fond of the characters, he though it was a very realistic portrayal of the method for finding exoplanets…or what we call here Abodes for Little Green Men.
Why the men are so often green, I have no idea. I wonder if Edgar Rice Burroughs had anything to do with that.
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 13:14:33 GMT -8
Post by timothylane on Jan 12, 2020 13:14:33 GMT -8
Burroughs did indeed have green Martians, but he also had red Martians (among whom the stories mostly take place), and black, white, and yellow Martians. The whites (the Therns) were especially unpleasant. His green Martians had 4 arms and were quite tall, definitely not "little green men".
I don't think the story had anything to do with evolution. It was just someone who got curious whether or not the old saying was true, with interesting results.
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Clara
Jan 12, 2020 15:17:49 GMT -8
Post by artraveler on Jan 12, 2020 15:17:49 GMT -8
I do not think anyone takes the Drake equation as exact science. What it does is present is scope on the massive size of just our galaxy. The numbers of possible habitable planets from recent research is already in the thousands and may be in the hundreds of thousands in the next 20 years. Will there be little green men and women in our future? not likely but you never know.
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 13, 2020 8:06:35 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 13, 2020 8:06:35 GMT -8
I would say it’s not even an approximate science. It’s another piece of guesswork dolled up to look scientific.
I’ve read opinions from those who think SETI is a waste of time because it’s based on the Drake equation. These opinions are, frankly, idiotic. Anyone who stares out into the night sky — and/or has a basic understanding of just how many stars and galaxies are out there — is right to train a telescope (regardless the frequency observed) to see what we might see in the electromagnetic spectrum.
We don’t know how life started on earth. But it seems there are three choices: Design, chance, and built-in design (fabric of the universe stuff) manifested by time-and-chance. That is, #1) God created the first cell (and subsequent unique combinations) because of conscious thought; #2) life occurred by complete chance (in a completely atheistic, purposeless universe), or #3) designed into the fabric of the forces and properties of energy and matter is the propensity for life to self-assemble as surely as water forms into snowflakes.
The Drake equation cheats and chooses option #2 without justifying itself. Now, even if one assume #2, the equation is so open-ended that it makes liberal climate models look like science.
However, recent planet-searching success suggests there are a lot of planets out there. There was really no reason to think otherwise but the proof is always in the pudding. There’s some speculation if the laws of nature are the same everywhere (or have perhaps changed a little since the Big Bang), but I think it’s generally concluded that they operate everywhere.
Thus the amazing thing is some of the reasonable (even valid and validated) conclusions we can come to about extremely distance objects that we have no hope of observing more directly. We can see our own star and understand that those points of light out there are other stars as well. We can intellectually understand physics to the point that we can (it seems...surprises are an inevitability) surmise the precise cause of supernovae in stars in distance galaxies.
This is a double-edged sword. Science is full of interesting speculation that, because they were proposed by “science,” take on a solidity they don’t deserves. Examples are: dark energy, the multiverse, inflation theory, and string theory. It’s not that some of these theories are held without reason. And some of them could turn out to be true or partially true. But I’m amazed how quickly these things have been assumed to be true when there really is no hard evidence.
We can castigate Sir Arthur Conan Doyle for delving into spiritualism (which many prominent people did, holding it as a theory of how the world might work). But Sir Arthur has nothing over those who hold to the theory of “dark energy.” It’s just that the latter sounds “scientific.” Cosmologists have noted that there must be hidden matter in order to account for the structure and motion of galaxies. And this matter is “invisible” and presumed to be so different from normal matter/energy that it is undetectable.
Well….basically this seems like a sort of scientific “spiritualism.”
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 13, 2020 8:13:10 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 13, 2020 8:13:10 GMT -8
Here's what Wiki says about Little Green Men:
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 13, 2020 8:59:25 GMT -8
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 13, 2020 8:59:25 GMT -8
My own belief is that we’re making idols of many of these things. As traditional religious belief has been marginalized and considered the provence of rubes and the unsophisticated, “science” has become many people’s temple.
And I’m not talking about being in awe of modern electronics, of miracle medicines, or of the amazing photos taken by the Hubble Space Telescope. All those, and more, are worthy of awe, respect, and even a bit of secular veneration. This stuff is amazing.
But now “science” has become a term, a moniker used to anoint, as a priesthood would, certain ideas. First off, there is no “science.” There are simply various methods, theories, data collecting, and publishing. When I see these pompous idiots aim a camera at some bird in the Amazon jungle and say that he is bringing these creature under the purview of “science,” well, that’s exactly what I’m talking about.
The clear meaning is that nothing in this world is real or important until some smug “scientist” has categorized it. And yet, frankly, if you add up the entirety of scientific (not technological or manufacturing, mind you) thought and research, the equations and the math are amazing. And yet at the end of the day, in terms of telling us what it all means and what it is all about, this same reverent “science” has nothing to say but gibberish such as the multiverse theory — a theory that could be true but there is no evidence for it nor could there be…at least in the “scientific” sense.
What we have is a universe of amazing complexity and consistency. But nothing inside this universe — absolutely nothing — gives evidence for why it should be the way it is, let alone why it should be at all.
Thus in that context, these Drake equations seem downright silly.
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Post by artraveler on Jan 13, 2020 9:00:19 GMT -8
#1) God created the first cell (and subsequent unique combinations) because of conscious thought; #2) life occurred by complete chance (in a completely atheistic, purposeless universe), or #3) designed into the fabric of the forces and properties of energy and matter is the propensity for life to self-assemble as surely as water forms into snowflakes. I submit that there is an option #4, G-d's hand is in all creation, past, present, and future. Of course, that takes the earth centric focus away and changes it to universal, something hard core religious people are sure to find a challenge, even heresy.
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Brad Nelson
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Clara
Jan 13, 2020 9:20:45 GMT -8
lynda likes this
Post by Brad Nelson on Jan 13, 2020 9:20:45 GMT -8
Yeah, I’m good with that. And it matches the fossil record which shows species coming out of existence from nowhere. On the long timeline, there is no doubt of some type of “evolution” in the sense that there is evidence of single-celled bacteria over 4 billion years ago compared to human beings and other complex life today. There is a general progression, In trying to salvage the inherent gradualist view of Darwinism, Stephen Jay Gould came up with the theory of “ punctuated equilibrium.” It’s a reasonable theory that tries to account for the fossil record that shows the exact opposite of gradualism—of a long trail of one species blending into another. Of course, Gould’s theory made Darwinism’s foundation even creakier because now (somehow) evolution had to come in greater bursts of speed when even slow gradualism is highly problematic. Also, It’s become remarkably clear that any Darwinian “tree of life” is a fantasy, at best. It just doesn’t work. Whether this means mixing and side-ways blending of genes, we have no idea. But given that there is no apparent way, in principle, that extremely complex systems (whether talking Microsoft Office or the human eye) can self-assemble by chance (there is only a vapory hope that they do), the idea of a designer tinkering with his creation, past present and future, definitely fits the facts. That is, it needn’t be a one-time creation event, although there is a possibility (especially given the gargantuan amounts of so-called “junk DNA”) that encoded into the first cell was the information to generate — in response to environmental conditions, for sure — all the life that we see. I would say there is a lot of pseudo-religion inside of religion. (Others would say it’s all 100% made up.) Dennis Prager asserts that it was never necessary for the world to be at the center of the universe. The general religious idea was that there was a heaven above and and earth below, that there was a general hierarchy but that the actual geography had nothing to do with planets, suns, and orbits. (“Hell” need not be underfoot, for example.) I think he’s right. Now, I do admit that it is highly offense for many Christians not to see mankind as the be-all, end-all not only of this earth but of all of the universe. And that is the belief that atheists love puncturing, especially by looking out into the night sky and supposedly showing that we are insignificant because of the immensity of it all. A newborn baby as opposed to a an atom of hydrogen is not insignificant. If religious sensibilities and egos have tried to make a sort of god out of man, the reverse is prevalent in our culture. At every turn you’ll hear the proud trumpeting that we are insignificant. And, very oddly, it has somehow become comforting to a denuded and atheistic people to believe so. Somewhere there is a happy medium. Humans and earth can be incredibly special without raising ourselves over God who, one would think, is more than capable of creating other amazing things besides us. And I’m all for looking for those things.
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