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Post by kungfuzu on Jul 27, 2021 8:38:19 GMT -8
It is a sign of our decadent times, that this even has to be said. Porn stars aren't conservatives! At least there are still some sane people who will not bow down to the insane blather dishonestly sold as "conservative" principals by libertarians. The most famous of these immoral mendacities is that queer marriage is somehow conservative. What a stupendous lie.
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
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Post by Brad Nelson on Jul 29, 2021 17:14:07 GMT -8
I read a few articles about the controversy. The ones I did supported the idea of it being possible for a porn star to be a good conservative. Porn stars, by definition, can’t be conservatives. If they can, then you’re just defining-down conservatism until it means nothing.
Do you want me to get into more detail about this? Probably not, because we’re probably thinking the same thing. But my prime thought would be: A main and vital feature of the Left is liberalization of sexuality, guided only by the principle of reductio ad absurdum and the destruction of all healthy norms. We’re seeing the results with pronoun police, Drag Queen story hour, etc.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 8, 2021 14:55:12 GMT -8
Two good pieces on just how stupid (or dishonest) some Republicans are. I included dishonest because I don't believe this is about decorum for many. That excuse is only a fig leaf for some of the more rapacious scoundrels among them. The first is by Victor David Hanson. The second shows the idiot Republicans are, or pretend to be, more concerned about tone than destroying the finances of the country. If the point about decorum is true, it shows just how stupid these people are. One does not worry about "decorum" when one is in hand-to-hand combat in a filthy trench with an implacable foe. One fights to win. Again, I say many of the "fights" scoundrels like McConnell engage in are actually intimate dances of passion between two willing partners. They want us to believe they are fighting, but they are just negotiating on divvying up the spoils. Why I left National ReviewDecorum Republicans
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Post by artraveler on Oct 8, 2021 16:42:53 GMT -8
VDH left NR for the same reason we did. It is no longer relevant
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Post by kungfuzu on Apr 25, 2022 14:41:28 GMT -8
We all know that the various RINOs, leftists writers, political advisors and other cons claiming they work for Conservative Inc. are a big problem for the movement. But Steve Bannon lays out, to my mind, a bigger problem facing the movement and, by extension, the country. The 5 minute clip starts with Bannon's commenting on how so many conservative fan boys are having orgasms over Elon Musk buying Twitter. Grow up
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
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Post by Brad Nelson on Apr 26, 2022 15:21:03 GMT -8
We'll have to wait and see if Twitter becomes less fascist and more free-speech friendly. Time will tell on this one.
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Post by kungfuzu on Aug 16, 2022 9:12:44 GMT -8
The link is to a longish, but very interesting piece about a big part of what ails society. The piece puts into academic terms pretty much what we have been saying for a long time. I like the fact that he calls out these fools who believe they are elites, but who are really high-paid lackeys. They ape their betters because they don't have the brains to see reality. I see a number of themes here which I have been hammering on for decades. The loss of the pursuit of personal excellence, the atomization of the individual from society, the creation of an amorphous international culture and others. Whenever I get into discussions about American food, I make a certain point by saying "America has brought the standard of cuisine to a very high level of mediocrity. " In large part I am referring to the "fast-food" culture. This sentiment can be applied to just about everything else we do. Anti-Managerial Aesthetics
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
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Post by Brad Nelson on Aug 17, 2022 14:46:29 GMT -8
One could then reason that the reason for the existence of the powerful back-slapping echo chamber (BSEC) is the need to prop each other up...artificially. The obvious lack-of-substance of so many people is not lost on those outside the treadmill of aping the Elites. Those free to see that the emperor has no clothes sees that not only is the emperor butt-naked but he's covered his body in garish tattoos.
Facebook and other anti-social media certainly feed this desire of the mediocre to be thought of as Elite. And they do so by associating themselves with Elite ideas. Do people really really really want to kill babies? Probably not. But it's not about babies. It's about holding opinions that are considered part of the elite. "Babies" become a distant fiction, a thing of unimportance in the scheme of status-signalling. The same with the "homeless." It doesn't matter that mythologizing the "homeless" is aiding and abetting their doom. All that matters is that the holder of the mythological idea is thought of as a Higher Being (aka, part of "The Golden Children.") Thomas Sowell noted years ago how the Left used various groups as mere mascots.
Trying to find a place "at court" is as old as time. People want to associate with the elite. They'll wear the powdered wigs or ape any truly bizarre idea or custom just so long as it helps advance them into the Elite. This is truly at the core of the rot of America. Posing is in. Actual excellence is out (out-sourced, more than likely...and usually to China).
There's a problem in untangling this web of lies and mediocrity: The government funds it at an enormous expense...through "social programs," through universities, and now (we see) through military. I don't see how we can untrench this. And I don't expect Trump to even try because, for him, "deep state" are just the words of a demagogue. He doesn't mean any of it. But his energy policies (and some of his other policies) were good and quite beneficial. But Trump cannot lead any ideological movement against any of this because he's just not built to think that way.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 12, 2022 12:13:09 GMT -8
The article linked to below, covers just about everything I have said about conservatism. It sounds like the author has been reading R&T. Rethinking ConservatismSome excerpts from the piece. This is why I have been relentless in my criticism of libertarians, both left and right. They either live in Never-Never-Land, in which case they should not be taken seriously, or they are demons and need to be destroyed. Before Artler shoots off his easy chair, I should note that, despite his protestations, I do not consider him a true libertarian. He is, as I see it, basically a constitutional conservative with some libertarian leanings.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 12, 2022 12:46:24 GMT -8
While I am on the subject, let me repeat my piece from the Stubborn Things days of yore. I can't believe I wrote this over eight years ago.
Libertarians: the Chirping Sectaries by Russell Kirk
by Kung Fu Zu 6/29/14
While looking up a particular quote recently, I came upon the above article which Kirk wrote in 1981. The timing of this piece is interesting as it came out after Ronald Reagan had been in office for less than one year. No doubt, there were discussions similar to those we are having today as to the relationship between Conservatives and Libertarians.
To start his piece Kirk asks what conservatives and libertarians have in common. Kirk concedes –
“these two bodies of opinion share a detestation of collectivism. They set their faces against the totalist state and the heavy hand of bureaucracy.”
This is true and good as far as it goes. However, in the next paragraph Kirk writes:
“What else do conservatives and libertarians profess in common?” The answer to that question is simple: nothing. Nor will they ever have. To talk of forming a league or coalition between these two is like advocating a union of ice and fire."
Those who believe modern conservatives and libertarians are merely different schools of conservative thought are likely to be stunned by this. They shouldn’t be, and Kirk lays out significant differences between the two in his article.
Kirk highlights the essential fault of libertarian zealots when he writes:
The ruinous failing of the ideologues who call themselves libertarians is their fanatic attachment to a simple solitary principle—that is, to the notion of personal freedom as the whole end of the civil order, and indeed of human existence.
In this one paragraph he encapsulates the superficial, abstract and utopian thinking behind libertarian “philosophy”. He then goes on to show how detached from reality such thought is.
Kirk traces libertarian thought back to John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty, the doctrines of which libertarians carry “to absurdity.” Mill declares, “the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection.”These are fine sounding words from an ascetic intellectual who experienced life principally through books, and who seemed to assume –
“that most human beings, if only they were properly schooled, would think and act precisely like John Stuart Mill.”
This faith in the power of logic and lack of imagination as regards human motivation is something not uncommon among intellectuals of all stripes. Kirk shows how Mill’s thoughts in On Liberty were thoroughly debunked as early as 1873 by James Fitzjames Stephen in his Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. In his book, Stephen clearly shows the shallowness of Mill’s thought and his “inadequate understanding of human nature and history”.
I find an interesting parallel to the reclusive Mill in Karl Marx, a man who rarely worked for his keep and spent his adult life in a library, yet was perfectly willing to proclaim his expert knowledge of economics and humanity with a straight and generally sour face.
Kirk lays out six major differences between conservatives and doctrinaire libertarians:
1. The great line of division in modern politics—as Eric Voegelin reminds us—is not between totalitarians on the one hand and liberals (libertarians) on the other; rather, it lies between all those who believe in some sort of transcendent moral order, on one side, and on the other side all those who take this ephemeral existence of ours for the be-all and end-all—to be devoted chiefly to producing and consuming. In this discrimination between the sheep and the goats, the libertarians must be classified with the goats—that is, as utilitarians admitting no transcendent sanctions for conduct. In effect, they are converts to Marx's dialectical materialism; so conservatives drawback from them on the first principle of all.
2. In any society, order is the first need of all. Liberty and justice may be established only after order is tolerably secure. But the libertarians give primacy to an abstract liberty. Conservatives, knowing that “liberty inheres in some sensible object,” are aware that true freedom can be found only within the framework of a social order, such as the constitutional order of these United States. In exalting an absolute and indefinable “liberty” at the expense of order, the libertarians imperil the very freedoms they praise.
3. What binds society together? The libertarians reply that the cement of society (so far as they will endure any binding at all) is self-interest, closely joined to the nexus of cash payment. But the conservatives declare that society is a community of souls, joining the dead, the living, and those yet unborn; and that it coheres through what Aristotle called friendship and Christians call love of neighbor.
4. Libertarians (like anarchists and Marxists) generally believe that human nature is good, though damaged by certain social institutions. Conservatives, on the contrary, hold that "in Adam's fall we sinned all": human nature, though compounded of both good and evil, is irremediably flawed so the perfection of society is impossible, all human beings being imperfect. Thus the libertarian pursues his illusory way to Utopia, and the conservative knows that for the path to Avernus.
5. The libertarian takes the state for the great oppressor. But the conservative finds that the state is ordained of God. In Burke's phrases, “He who gave us our nature to be perfected by our virtue, willed also the necessary means of its perfection. He willed therefore the state-its connexion with the source and original archetype of all perfection.” Without the state, man's condition is poor, nasty, brutish, and short-as Augustine argued, many centuries before Hobbes. The libertarians confound the state with government. But government-as Burke continued --”is a contrivance of human wisdom to provide for human wants. “Among the more important of those human wants is “a sufficient restraint upon their passions. Society requires not only that the passions of individuals should be subjected, but that even in the mass and body, as well as in the individual, the inclinations of men should frequently be thwarted, their will controlled, and their passions brought into subjection. This can be done only by a power out of themselves; and not, in the exercise of its function, subject to that will and to those passions which it is its office to bridle and subdue.”In short, a primary function of government is restraint; and that is anathema to libertarians, though an article of faith to conservatives.
6. The libertarian thinks that this world is chiefly a stage for the swaggering ego; the conservative finds himself instead a pilgrim in a realm of mystery and wonder, where duty, discipline, and sacrifice are required—and where the reward is that love which passeth all understanding. The conservative regards the libertarian as impious, in the sense of the old Roman "pietas:" that is, the libertarian does not venerate ancient beliefs and customs, or the natural world, or his country, or the immortal spark in his fellowmen. The cosmos of the libertarian is an arid loveless realm, a "round prison." "I am, and none else beside me," says the libertarian. "We are made for cooperation, like the hands, like the feet," replies the conservative, in the phrases of Marcus Aurelius.
Of these six, I find point 4 to be the fount from which the other differences flow. Of course, to disabuse libertarians, anarchists and Marxists of their fantasies is something which has, to date, eluded mankind. But as history has clearly demonstrated, human nature is extremely complicated and simply believing that people are basically good does not mean that it is so. Because of this Kirk restates a basic principle of political science, and expands from there.
In any society, order is the first need of all. Liberty and justice may be established only after order is tolerably secure. But the libertarians give primacy to an abstract liberty. Conservatives, knowing that "liberty inheres in some sensible object," are aware that true freedom can be found only within the framework of a social order, such as the constitutional order of these United States. In exalting an absolute and indefinable "liberty" at the expense of order, the libertarians imperil the very freedoms they praise.
To anticipate those who might find his overall analysis questionable Kirk writes;
"But surely, surely I must be misrepresenting the breed? Don't I know self-proclaimed libertarians who are kindly old gentlemen, God-fearing, patriotic, chaste, well endowed with the good of fortune? Yes, I do know such. They are the people who through misapprehension put up the cash for the fantastics. Such gentlemen call themselves "libertarians" merely because they believe in personal freedom, and do not understand to what extravagances they lend their names by subsidizing doctrinaire "libertarian" causes and publications. If a person describes himself as "libertarian" because he believes in an enduring moral order, the Constitution of the United States, free enterprise, and old American ways of life—why, actually he is a conservative with imperfect understanding of the general terms of politics.
That last sentence is very important. Conservatives are all for joining with those who may call themselves libertarians, but are in fact constitutional conservatives in the American sense. This is why it is so important to get definitions correct. Labels are often thrown around very loosely so clarity of expression and thought are necessary for the fight to take back our country.
To illustrate the absurdity of Libertarianism, Kirk quotes an excerpt from a G.K. Chesterton story, titled “The Yellow Bird”.
Chesterton writes in his parable:
To an English country house comes Professor Ivanhov, a Russian scholar who has published "The Psychology of Liberty." He is a zealot for emancipation, expansion, the elimination of limits. He begins by liberating a canary from its cage—to be torn to pieces in the forest. He proceeds to liberate the goldfish by smashing their bowl. He ends by blowing up himself and the beautiful old house where he has been a guest.
"What exactly is liberty?" inquires a spectator of this series of events—Gabriel Gale, Chesterton's mouthpiece. "First and foremost, surely, it is the power of a thing to be itself. In some ways the yellowbird was free in the cage. It was free to be alone. It was free to sing. In the forest its feathers would be torn to pieces and its voice choked for ever. Then I began to think that being oneself, which is liberty, is itself limitation. We are limited by our brains and bodies; and if we break out, we cease to be ourselves, and, perhaps, to be anything."
"The Russian psychologist could not endure the necessary conditions of human existence; he must eliminate all limits; he could not endure the "round prison" of the overarching sky. But his alternative was annihilation for himself and his lodging; and he took the alternative. He ceased to be anything but fractured atoms. That is the ultimate freedom of the devoted libertarian.
I believe Kirk uncovers one basic truth which lurks deep in the recesses of the doctrinaire Libertarian’s mind when he writes:
“Lo, I am proud! The perennial libertarian, like Satan, can bear no authority temporal or spiritual. He desires to be different, in morals as in politics. In a highly tolerant society like that of American today, such defiance of authority on principle many lead to perversity on principle, for the lack of anything more startling to do; there is no great gulf fixed between libertarianism and libertinism.”
I will leave to others to determine what this says about the psychology of the doctrinaire Libertarian. But given the regimentation of modern society and the homogenization of our world, perhaps it is understandable for some individuals to search for meaning through differentiation. Perhaps this is why we have the celebrity culture. People of no particular merit can now become famous for being famous.
But being different for difference’s sake is very different from being different because of talent or effort.
I recommend the reader search out and read Kirk’s full article. It is a tonic to those of us who hold similar views. And it could be of enormous educational value in helping those sincere yet somewhat muddled people who know they are not socialists but don’t know whether or not they are conservatives.
I will leave the reader with a final thought from Kirk:
"Since Mill, the libertarians have forgotten nothing and learned nothing. Mill dreaded, and they dread today, obedience to the dictates of custom. In our time, really, the real danger is that custom and prescription and tradition may be overthrown utterly among us—for has not that occurred already in most of the world?—by neoterism, the lust for novelty; and that men will be no better than the flies of a summer, oblivious to the wisdom of their ancestors, and forming every opinion merely under the pressure of the fad, the foible, the passion of the hour."
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Post by artraveler on Oct 12, 2022 21:33:01 GMT -8
Kirk highlights the essential fault of libertarian zealots I find it interesting that the conservative criticism of libertarians is always to go to the most active and strident forms of what they suppose libertarian philosophy to be. In effect, creating a straw man that is easily knocked down. This is a tactic the left has perfected. However, I freely admit many so-called libertarians do fit the straw man image and are more just ordinary leftists than libertarian. This type have not given thought to what they think they are advocating. This is a fault of many conservatives and liberals also. There is common ground between liberal, libertarian and conservative although the line is often very thin and can be wiped out in a thoughtless moment of zealotry by either group. Thoughtful libertarians are just as concerned about how society is structured as conservatives. The differences, in to my belief is the degree of control exerted by government. No thoughtful person expects society to be entirely self-governing. Where conservatives and libertarians differ is the amount of government control and the expense of that control. That means the goal is the same but the road my differ, i.e. it is a policy difference not necessary a philosophical difference. A conservative might say, " we need a law about X, and when passed I blindly will obey it", the libertarian might say, "go ahead and pass your law, if it makes common sense I will obey it" Consider the thousands of laws and regulations on the books today. How many of them are actually needed? How many of them did you break before lunch today? In some towns it is illegal to spit on the sidewalk. Ok, it is gross but just because it is gross is a law necessary? How many thousands of regulations go on the books every year that the people never approved through their representatives? This is a quiet form of tyranny that must be opposed. Libertarians do not oppose government, nor seek to abolish government entirely, but to limit its power to do evil. Is that not the heart of the American Constitution? A more efficient government would be a monarchy but our founders thought it too prone to tyranny, and they were correct to believe it so. Libertarians accept that power not only corrupts, but that the people who are chosen to exercise power are corruptible, thus the concept of citizen governance. The libertarian is appalled at the incumbents reelection percentage in congress about 95%. I believe it was WFB who said he would rather be governed be 535 names in the phone book than the current crop of house members and senators. And it has gotten worse in the last 40 years. We see the occasional house member or senator who serves two terms and return to their former profession, but they are like hens teeth, difficult to find. Conservatives are just as guilty as the leftists in perpetuating this corruption on the American people. If a person describes himself as "libertarian" because he believes in an enduring moral order, the Constitution of the United States, free enterprise, and old American ways of life—why, actually he is a conservative with imperfect understanding of the general terms of politics.Another strawman Perhaps it is the conservative with an imperfect understanding of politics and that is why the left is on the march from California to New York. We agree on one important and critical issue, Zealotry, of any persuasion always leads to tyranny. The libertarian is more inclined to oppose it than the conservative.
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Post by artraveler on Oct 12, 2022 21:44:13 GMT -8
Before Artler shoots off his easy chair, I should note that, despite his protestations, I do not consider him a true libertarian. He is, as I see it, basically a constitutional conservative with some libertarian leanings. Actually I can live with that, although I think your guy Kirk is full of himself and is unwilling to admit that even conservatives can be zealots and dangerous to the social order.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 14, 2022 5:17:41 GMT -8
Again, most of what you write falls into the category of "constitutional conservative." A "thoughtful" libertarian as you define him, certainly doesn't fall within the group of nutty people who often present themselves as libertarians.
But too many of today's "libertarians" such as those incels who have pushed for the legalization of marijuana like it was the equivalent of freeing the slaves after the Civil War, are both nutty dupes and dishonest hacks. Have these idiots not figured out that our government is quite happy to rule over a bunch of listless slackers who, become more docile and less questioning the more dope they smoke?
I have found that libertarians are too often happy to push for special projects like the legalization of marijuana, which they count toward expanding freedom, but have been more than content to leave in place the many facets of welfare state which is anything but libertarian. They don't push for freedom, they push for the right of the state to support their drugs addictions, and if they last long enough, their medical bills. They profess the desire to limit the state's reach, but in fact become a burden on the state. Maybe they are just leftists, but if this is so, right-thinking libertarians need to put a big distance between themselves and these parasites.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 14, 2022 5:29:14 GMT -8
Perhaps, but it is more likely that many who have professed to be "conservative" are actually wolves in sheep's clothing and have been working with the left, out of conviction, greed or complacency. More importantly, many people are too fat, dumb, happy and lazy to pay attention to what has been going on around them for most of their lives. Thus they have allowed the pending collapse of the USA. In theory this is true enough, but who defines what is zealous and not? Am I a zealot for holding the present abomination of spreading "transgenderism" and proselytizing little children as satanic, thus believe it should be immediately eradicated from our schools, if not our nation? If that is zealotry, then call me a zealot. I do not call a melanoma a freckle.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 14, 2022 6:23:33 GMT -8
Here is a piece which I wrote almost nine years ago, before my piece Libertarians: the Chirping Sectaries by Russell Kirk . I quote one of the high priests of Libertarianism, Murray Rothbard, who one would think, accurately represents Libertarian thought.
Libertarians: The Bolsheviks of the Right
by Kung Fu Zu 12/28/13
Much of what Libertarians preach is simply a rehash of classical liberalism or constitutional conservatism. To a very great extent, American Conservatives fall into the category of classical liberals and wish for the smallest possible government consistent with maintaining a peaceful and orderly community. If Libertarians could focus on this broad area of agreement, there would be the normal back and forth on specific policies, and a working political coalition between Libertarians and Conservatives could be established.
Unfortunately, this is not likely to happen because, at the heart of the Libertarian philosophy, there is the desire for a Utopian paradise which is based on a profound misunderstanding and denial of human nature. This Utopian dream has pronounced similarities with Marxism. Some may find this statement outrageous but the following quotes should give those people reason to reconsider their position:
“The interference of the state power in social relations becomes superfluous in one sphere after another, and then ceases of itself. The government of persons is replaced by the administration of things and the direction of the processes of production. The state is not “abolished,”it withers away.”
The above statement was made by Marx’s good friend and financial supporter Frederick Engels. Many have forgotten this part of Marxist theory, but the end point of Marxism was the state of no State.
The next quotes are from the famous Libertarian Murray Rothbard.
“It's ours to right the great wrong done,\\ Ten thousand years ago -- \\ The State, conceived in blood and hate, \\ Remains our only foe! \\ Oh, join us, brothers, join us, sisters,\\ Victory is nigh!\\ Come meet your fate, destroy the State,\\ And raise black banners high!”
“The State is in no sense required by the nature of man; quite the contrary.”
“The great non sequitur committed by defenders of the State, is to leap from the necessity of society to the necessity of the State.”
The similarity in thought is striking. Both groups have the political end of doing away with the State. We know how Marxism’s most successful proponents, the Bolsheviks, and their cousins the Maoists, tried to attain this goal. It was by the slaughter of tens of millions of people. The Libertarians’ method is not yet clear, but perhaps they hope to bring everyone around a campfire and get them stoned on weed.
Why any rational human being would entertain the thought that humanity could function without the “State,” (however one wishes to define it — society, community, etc.) and some sort of communal coercion which comes with being a part of a political group, is something which psychologists should further study. Yet in their Muenchausian world, Libertarians such as Rothbard appear to believe that each individual is completely autonomous and can act without affecting others. This leads to several questions.
Do Libertarians truly believe that, all or even most, individuals left to their own devices could exist in harmony together, as everyone would be “reasonable”? If so, they should cite an example of such a town, state or country. Have Libertarians no idea of the volatility of human nature? Do they think by wishing to change human nature they can simply say “make it so” and it will be? Such magical thinking moves one to say “God save us from all social engineering theorists.”
Throughout history, groups starting at the family level have determined through experience that a minimum level of unity and cohesion are requisite for survival. They established rules of conduct in order to promote such unity and cohesion. These rules have sometimes been maintained by group force. Such rules, developed over time within the tribe and larger units, eventually evolved into the “Rule of Law.” The fact that the “Law” was known and everyone was, at least theoretically, subject to it, is one of the greatest achievements of mankind. Limits were imposed. People knew what the rules were and could adjust their lives accordingly. Order, safety — and freedom itself — grew from this.
Libertarians claim they set their own standards and do not wish to impose them on others. This sounds nice, but in reality they would impose their standards on others. To take an extreme case, let us imagine a Libertarian decides to walk naked down the street in a modest community and someone objects. His answer to the objection will be, “you cannot restrict my freedom to walk down the street naked as I am not hurting you. I am not imposing my beliefs or will on you. If you don’t like me walking down the street naked, don’t look.” But this is a disingenuous argument because he is restricting your freedom. He is using your communal morals against you making you avoid a public area in order to keep from seeing him. The fact that the majority of people don’t wish to be confronted with his public nudity is not relevant to the naked Libertarian. To his mind, others have no right to proscribe his behavior. But clearly, communities must set standards. Knowing this, one can conclude that Libertarians desire the advantages of the community without being subject to the demands of the community. This is a type of Egotism which if nurtured and allowed to stand would create monsters and lead to the tyranny of the individual over the majority.
Following Libertarian logic, the only norms which society can impose on the individual are those prohibiting physical assault and theft. In the end, such thinking will lead to the point where exhibitionists, oddballs and malcontents will redefine acceptable behavior and, as Moynihan said, define deviancy down. Effectively, extremists and types who fancy themselves Nietzschean Supermen will rule because the simplistic non-coercion rule of Libertarians is an opportunity for the most ruthless to rule. If you have no authority (a State) to say "no," then the law of the jungle reigns. These Nietzschean types will not be satisfied until they have brought a large percentage of society down to their level and literally forced the rest out of the public square. Their political reply to those who disagree with them is essentially, “get used to it.” This sounds very similar to what the Left is trying to do to the country and, knowingly or not, the Libertarians are simply abetting the Left in the race for the bottom.
Although Libertarians such as Rothbard may think they are moving forward, they are really regressing to some imaginary Rousseauian State of Nature. They are pining for a time when rules would become blurred and changeable depending upon each person’s whim. In reality, they would be on the road to a place where, at any given moment, the law becomes what the strongest decides. Unrestrained passion would flourish, as rules restrain such passion. The law would become capricious and capriciousness is the enemy of the individual and group. If Libertarians were foolish enough to follow such philosophy they would end up in a “State of Nature” i.e. a place where the life of man would be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short” as described by Thomas Hobbs. Luckily, we are not yet there and it is the State which has saved us from such an end.
Politically, I am a constitutional conservative. I believe our Federal Government, in its present form, is an abomination that has overstepped all bounds with regards to the rights of U.S. citizens. I believe it is corrupt to its core and is in collusion with big business, big labor and others, who Burnham describes as the “Managerial Class,” to the detriment of the individual citizen. In my opinion, the present Federal government is bloated beyond reason or need, is intentionally profligate with its citizens’ money, and its size and power should be dramatically reduced. However, I do not think it should be abolished. The only hope we might have to turn around our badly off-course ship-of-state is to recognize and understand human nature and the human condition. The quest for an earthly paradise is a fool’s errand. History has shown us that the pursuit of Utopia is too often a bloody journey. We should keep this in mind, as simplistic remedies with little basis in human reality will not be very helpful in reaching our political goals.
Self governance is one of man’s great treasures. The ability and right to have a say in how one’s society is ruled is something which should be highly prized. Keeping a skeptical eye on those who govern us is a duty required by all citizens if we intend to maintain our freedoms. But freedom from societal governance is a pipe dream and something beyond the moral ability of mankind. As Madison said, “If men were angels, no government would be necessary.”
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Post by artraveler on Oct 14, 2022 18:05:23 GMT -8
To a very great extent, American Conservatives fall into the category of classical liberals and wish for the smallest possible government consistent with maintaining a peaceful and orderly community. We share the same abhorrence of Rothbard and his ilk. I find the so called libertarians of this kind just as repulsive as the RINOs of the Republican Party and the everyday run-of-the mill leftists. Like Marx, Groucho not Karl, I don't want to be a part of any organization that wants me as its member.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 21, 2022 8:38:24 GMT -8
A thought-provoking article from the Federalist. The writer has come around to the view which I have taken for some time now. In 2016, I told friends overseas that I figured Trump's election would lead to a worsening spiral of political extremism and could eventually devolve into actual violence. Not because Trump was violent, but because was the first "Republican" who seemed to stand up to the left and the left wasn't going to take that lying down. Well, we have seen that this prediction has come true and we are only at the beginning of things. No longer conservatives, but radicals
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Brad Nelson
Administrator
עַבְדְּךָ֔ אֶת־ הַתְּשׁוּעָ֥ה הַגְּדֹלָ֖ה הַזֹּ֑את
Posts: 12,271
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Post by Brad Nelson on Oct 22, 2022 11:09:11 GMT -8
My thoughts exactly. The conservative project (and a "holding action" is the only "project" that I've mostly ever seen) is ineffective. Let us first get over the delusion of the "classical liberal". That is a class that exists only in theory. In practice these "classical liberals" have been the gateway drug to full-out Leftism. This is undeniably true. As I watched my "conservative" friends all dutifully mask-up as they were told, I didn't need Mr. Davidson to tell me that the conservative project was a failure. What "conservatism" has meant from a practical standpoint is a sort of in-house virtue-signaling to other "conservative" virtue-signalers who spend most of their energy posting photos on Facebook of hot chicks posing with guns and making Rush Limbaugh rich. Again, undeniably true. Those are debatable points. There is no question that the transforming of man into homo economicus turned him into a market/consumer creature. And there is no question that the 16th and 19th Amendments fundamentally changed our nation (with the same sorts of principles having the same effect throughout the West.) I'm therefore not sure that one need to look to changing technology to find an answer other than the effect of "Things were coming too easy to us." I'm still reading. And that's all well and good. But what is needed is action, whether you call it a "conservative project" or something else. The great sin of "conservatives" is that our think-tanks have become detached cloud-minders who sell books, write articles, give speeches, and almost always with no call to action. It's ingrained paralysis-by-analysis. And this guy just continues to show me that he doesn't get it. What we need is someone to form a group somewhere (anywhere) that physically (but non-violently) escorts the "drag queen story hour" freaks out of the building. That's also debatable. I think it's known that Big Government (no matter who is running it) has a nature all its own. Sure, it sounds stylishly intellectual to say that conservatives need to embrace a big and activist government (although many in the know would say that the Republicans, for one, have done so for decades). What we need first and foremost is fighters in the trenches at the community level. When we ask Republicans (or other politicians) to fix things through government, we are basically doing the equivalent of tapping our ruby slippers together and hoping we end up back in Kansas.
Without the ability and willingness to face down what Dennis Prager calls the "S.I.X.H.I.R.B" slanders (Sexist, Intolerant, Xenophobic, Homophobic, Islamophobic, Racist, Bigoted), we are just whistling Dixie. And I've noted for years now how everyone and their brother decries on Facebook or around the water cooler this, that, or the other offense by the Left. But most don't have what it takes to actually defy these people. And that's where the rubber hits the road. All the other intellectualizing about how conservatism is done, etc., is just so much counting of angels on the heads of pins. This is reflected in the following: Agreed. Republicans ought to do all those things and more. But the bottom line is that if they can't look their cocktail-party chums (or especially their wives) in the eye with these ideas, good luck getting them to enact it through political power. And what I'm saying, of course, is that many of these issues are rooted directly in feminism….as noted by the article of late about the guy who noted that the book publishing world was controlled by liberal women. Big Tech squelches free speech precisely because of the feminine Snowflake factor, the idea that hurt feelings trump free speech. But as to the overall: Yes, we need to be radicals...radicals in our traditional conservatism, I would say. Radical for forwarding, persuading, and enforcing our ideas. And above all, radical in regards to less talk, more action.
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 25, 2022 15:15:47 GMT -8
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Post by kungfuzu on Oct 27, 2022 11:55:01 GMT -8
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